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Name some efficient horns


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bach_again
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottfsmith wrote:
bach_again wrote:

Truthfully what I think you are referring to as efficient, I think you actually mean RESISTANT.


I don't think I need resistant, if its a less resistant setup I just back off. My Aubertin/SML trumpet has relatively little resistance, and I still like it a lot. It was harder to play with my Monette for that reason but I eventually got used to it. I have learned to keep coming back to something that didn't work before, sometimes it takes quite awhile to adapt to the sweet spot. It's one reason why I like the eBay approach to finding a good horn.

My latest horn from eBay is a Courtois Privilege 307, curious what you think of that model given your experience with Courtois. I haven't been playing it long enough to form an opinion, still figuring it out. It appears more resistant than my SML, more like my Sonic 707.

bach_again wrote:

Have you ever experimented with drill size on the mouthpiece?


Yes a bit, but after playing Monette style (17 drill or wider) I confess I don't find a lot of difference between a 24 and a 27 drill. I have made some home-brew pieces between Monette and standard, with 19 or so drills, thats a nice zone not sure why nobody is making pieces there.


The ebay approach I can dig... 20+ horns down the line HAHA!

The 307 I never played, so no idea! The Courtois design seems to be very traditional French in nature. I would say Selmer influenced... at a guess. I played a Chambord II cornet for years. It was great save for the shoddy lacquer and I never wamred to the sound as much as a vintage Jim Shepherd model 921 Sovereign. That I should have tried to keep!

You can find Couesnon Bb trumpets for less than it costs to fill my car sometimes... tho in the UK fuel isn't as cheap as the US! The point remains... I might try one sometime.

Keefer Williams #2 is also this classic french design and cheap. I have one but it isn't fully intact. Easy upstairs and nice sound. Will cost me a bit to make it playable tho so holding off!!

You prefer open mouthpieces it seems, so perfectly reasonable to want an efficient horn. My pieces are all 27 drills with my commercial setup being a 29. I am going to experiment with throat size myself, but have rarely found larger is better. For me. I have had about 8 Monettes and in every case they played worse in every regard. I had Kanstul make a B4S with a 27 throat and it played amazingly well - so much better than the REAL monette! It goes to show - very personal trip this. I haven't ruled out Monette either, I will try some more. Chops are always changing... the metal isnt... so keeping an open mind.

Mike
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottfsmith wrote:
I'm not necessarily looking for tight, just for efficient. I agree there is a player component to it but it's not 100% in the player -- there is a horn component as well.

The Austin Winds Stage 466 sounds really interesting, it sounds like a non-tight efficient horn.

Re: changeable leadpipes, the Edwards has that. I got a smaller leadpipe after purchasing the horn and I like that better than the original one but it still didn't get me to the efficiency of my French horns.

Re: cornets, I started on cornet and maybe one reason why I like an efficient horn is I got used to the relatively easy blow there.


The Edwards X13 is really efficient, both in the blow and the response, which is scary if you jump on it, it's almost too much.

Calicchio w/a 2 or 7 leadpipe can be very efficient. I have a 9 on mine and I'm considering going smaller for less effort.

-Lionel
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
So I've remained quiet on this thread so far, mainly because I think the concept of an 'efficient' horn is quite flawed.

I thought I would share the following video to encourage some discussion. It was featured in another thread (maybe I even started that one, I don't remember) but the point here is that this young player is clearly incredibly efficient. Perhaps his trumpet is also 'efficient' but really it goes to prove the point that efficiency comes from the player- he's not playing any of the so-called efficient horns named above and yet, I wonder, how many people could demonstrate efficiency of this level? (It doesn't matter if you can't, but I'm suggesting that changing trumpet isn't going to be the difference between achieving it or not, if I'm making sense?)

https://youtu.be/1nPvs7XsdMA

If I was being cheeky, what's the most efficient horn? Whatever that kid is playing!

All the best

Edit 1 and 2:
1) Have just remembered a post by Alex Brain (the player in the link) saying he uses Shires trumpets.
2) There are numerous other players I could also have used as examples, but I just thought that was a particularly succinct video to demonstrate my point.


I passed out one time doing that (many years ago). I woke up on top of the horn with a squashed bell.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch! I did not pass out but was getting close to it when I tested the Jupiter Ingram model. Way too tight for me - unlike the Schilke B6 and B7 and the Yamah Shew models, which I really like and think of as efficient. But as I said above, it's probably as much on the player' side ... For instance in my perception a Bach 37 is not efficient, just tight and restrictive. Go figure.
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falado
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a Stomvi VR and later had KO put a VRII bell on it. It’s a great horn. I’ve tried many horns mentioned here, Sima, Wild Thing, Lawlers, Schilke B5 and S22, Benge CG, etc. I keep going back to the Stomvi. I have things I can say further, but don’t want to make this long. I can last, endurance wise, as long on all the mentioned horns. The Stomvi just plays easier. The WT has a great sound, the Sima is like playing a laser (great for rock gigs), the Lawlers were great as were all these horns, but for sound and ease of playing, I’ve found nothing that compares. However, I just got a Bach NY7 and it’s close.
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP here .. After asking this question awhile back I spent time processing the remarks above and paying more attention to how efficient the various horns I had.

The Edwards Gen III is not as efficient, but my feeling now is thats the price for it's deep rich growl (aka "core"). It takes energy to make that after all The horn also wants to produce a louder volume, thats just its sweet spot. So you play louder but it takes more work. Anyway the point is its an awesome horn, just not as efficient.

My "new to me" Courtois Privilege 307 was in fact one reason why I put up the initial post, it seemed a bit more efficient and now that I have played it for awhile can say it is a notch more efficient than all my other horns. Little seems to be known about this model; its a pro horn circa 2003, it was their "lightweight pro" alongside their one other Bb pro model at the time, the "heavyweight pro" Evolution IV. I measured the bore and was interested to learn it is also a step bore design -- the tuning slide is cylindrical at .560", but the valve slides are all more like .550" (they also may be dual-bore, I could not tell for sure from the measurements). I don't understand all the variations on step bore design but having this constriction only in the valves is apparently one kind of step bore horn. I would say it adds a touch more resistance, and in this case it does feel like that is buying me a bit easier playing. This horn loves my Monette, its the most efficient piece for the horn.

My SML (Aubertin) horn I found is in fact not so efficient with my Monette, there's too little resistance. It plays great but I just don't last as long. With a regular mouthpiece (GR65L in particular is my current favorite) its nicely efficient, giving a good balance of mouthpiece and horn.

The LeBlanc (Courtois) Sonic 707 is a nice efficient horn, just not quite up to the Privilege. It also is best with the Monette.

No grand conclusion here but I think it does support some remarks above about the horn-mouthpiece pairing being important to efficiency (SML), how step bore horns seem to fall in the more efficient camp (Privilege), and how it may be worth losing some efficiency to get a sound more like the one you want (Edwards).
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giakara
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawler TL5-1A
Calicchio 1S2
Getzen Eterna

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Claude1949
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter JTR-606 MR......an "Intermediate" level horn, but plays easily w/a great open sound!
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cedboe
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harrelson Muse !
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The MDT gives you 10 octaves of pitch perfect range.


Quote:
The MDT lets you control your notes without having to "Buzz" your lips. This gives you hours more endurance.


Quote:
Transposition is a button push away.


http://www.digitaltrumpet.com.au/

Now that's efficient.
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