Any Current Horns Sound Close to a Pre-War Besson Brevete?

[Voltrane]

Quoted from Shofarguy quoting Byron Autrey :
« Byron Autrey is the finest resource for information on Besson horns up through the 60s, at least.

This is the proverbial "hornets' nest" because so many different companies in so many different countries over the years have made the horns. Usually, names like "Brevete" and "Meha" don't refer to a single model, but a range of models. « 
From this thread
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=938961

So again and again when you buy a « Patented » (Breveté in French) Besson you do not not which model it is.
If you don’t trust me, at least trust Mr Autrey.

[OldSchoolEuph]

Yes, that's partially true. When dealing with an English Besson in particular, there is quite a bit of variation with what appears to be similar bell markings. With the Fontaine-Besson horns, the Brevete bell marking is quite common on all sorts of brass, but was used on a particular style, or perhaps family, of trumpet bell - and maybe by default. The Fabrication and Meha bell markings seem to correspond, from the admittedly minimal data I have seen, to fairly specific geometry, leaving the other geometry to carry the default Besson bell crest and perhaps incorrectly be mis-associated as a "brevet model".

Brevete & Fabrication are obviously words intended to convey a message that we have hijacked as names. The Selmer Grand Prix non-models would be another example (that being a reference to a competitive medal I think). I'm not sure what Meha means, but suspect it likewise was never intended to be a model name.

In fairness though, even Byron used these in place of model names in his notes on dimensions (and the leadpipes appear to have varied quite a bit from what I could identify - much of which is left behind in random strips of masking tape permanently bonded at random angles to the backs of his workshop cabinet doors). It may be technically incorrect, but those bell markings are all we have when it comes to assigning some name to the groupings that correspond.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Voltrane]

Yes.
The message to the op and others was : be very careful when you buy a Brevete Besson. Do not buy a false name, check the model « behind » (if you can!) : my 1912 Besson cornet is a Brevete, my 1930 C trumpet is a Brevete, as are every Besson horns I have seen....

[Evinerate]

I believe the word "Meha" appeared in the 20s and was the name Gustav Besson named his daughter? Not sure where I read that from but can someone confirm this?

[scottfsmith]

Yes, his grand-daughter Mathilde was an owner of the company at the time. There was an article in Brass Bulletin #59 several years ago mentioning this.

One other interesting thing in that article is they mentioned that the Aubertins largely manufactured (some) Meha instruments. I have seen several Meha's with two serial numbers (one was on eBay recently, a Rapuana), and my feeling is the smaller number on these double-serial instruments may be an Aubertin number. Aubertin made relatively few instruments as they were a very small shop, and their own serial numbers in the Meha period were similar to the smaller numbers on the Meha double-numbered instruments. I've never seen this mentioned anywhere that the double serials were Aubertin, though.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[quikv6]

There certainly seems to be widely varied bell traits and characteristics that exist amongst the same "model" designations. I'd imagine this would also yield variances in taper/measurements as well.

Example: Meha's with a wide flat bead and paper-thin feeling "dead" bell, and other Meha's with a lively "ringing bell", with a narrower, rounder bead, that feel thicker and stiffer. Both of these variances can be found on all French Besson "model names", whether they be Meha, Brevete/Grands Prix, Fabrication, etc. (I can't speak regarding English Bessons. )

Furthermore, I haven't really found a pattern in regards to which bell can be found on a specific slide configuration. It seems that whether it be an underslung 3rd, straight or slanted second, or fixed 3rd w/adjustable 1st, it could have either bell variation.
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-Chris

[OldSchoolEuph]

[quikv6]

....interesting you brought up the double serial# horns. I own two of those and have seen one more in person. That's not much of a pool to choose from but there are some interesting similarities.

All 3 were "Meha" stamped horns with "depose" on the cluster. 2 of the 3 are Rapuano configuration, and one is a traditional French slide configuration.

Of the 2 I own, the second serial numbers are only 50 numbers apart, but the main serial numbers are roughly 7,000 numbers apart.

I would love to know more about the double-serial horns, if anyone else has any further info, or has seen them on a horn OTHER than a Meha.
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-Chris

[Voltrane]

Hello,

"Deposé" is a legal wording. You cannot "patent" a model but you can "dépose" a model or a name. Meha was a "modele déposé", meaning no one else could make or name a Meha modele but Besson.
Regards.

[spach]

[Brassnose]

To the post of Voltrane just above: I am no lawyer but speak French; a marque depose is a copyrighted trademark..
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[giakara]

[rockford]