Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Posts: 371 Location: Port Jackson, NY
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:54 am Post subject: Silent Brass Questions...
The 'Best Practice Mute' thread got me to thinking...(always leads to trouble!)... I'm planning on incorporating a Flugelhorn into my acoustic single(guitar). I've been experimenting a bit and thinking that I might have some volume issues with the horn being louder than I'd like in some situations.
Enter Yamaha Silent Brass system... Would I be able to take an output(presumably the headphone out)... and run that into my mixer and get a reasonably good sound into the PA system?? If so, that could lead to some major fun!
How much of a cord headache would it be? I know it wouldn't be as nonchalant as just reaching over and picking up the horn and blowing into a mic.
Did you crazy kids that have this system have to take out a second mortgage to supply batteries??
Also... I have some 'sensitive' hearing issues and use earplugs on almost ALL of my gigs with the exception being my acoustic guitar stuff... now the trumpet/ flugelhorn will be throwing a monkey wrench into THAT as well!
Do any of you do something like this?
I'm also planning on 'invading' the horn section of my band, in which I play guitar, and I'm wondering if this could work out? Has anyone tried this in a 'commercial' band setting... going direct??
Has anyone hooked this thing up to a wireless setup??
I know a lot here use this system so whatcha think??
Thanks for any input! (no pun intended!) _________________ MH
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Silent Brass Questions...
mrhappy wrote:
Enter Yamaha Silent Brass system... Would I be able to take an output(presumably the headphone out)... and run that into my mixer and get a reasonably good sound into the PA system?? If so, that could lead to some major fun!
Not answering all of your questions because: The microphone in the Yamaha Silent Mute is terrible.
Even if all of the other problems could be worked around - it isn't worth any effort to use it other than as originally intended.
You could try it and see. i've had soundmen say that if the had known I had one they would have rather used that for me than a mic because of bleeding over into other mics! Could they have made it sound good? IDK, never got to try it because they didn't have the right size jack.
Yes, this can be done. the preamp in the silent brass module isn't great though and you can't bypass it by going direct from the mute/mic to the board because the mute/mic is requires a non-standard voltage phantom power from the sound module/preamp. IMO the preamp is the limiting factor in this approach, not the mute/mic.
Alternatively you could go with a piezobarrel pickup on your mouthpiece and go direct to the board that way. you would still need to mute the horn to address your volume concerns, but the sound quality is definitely better.
Yes, this can be done. the preamp in the silent brass module isn't great though and you can't bypass it by going direct from the mute/mic to the board because the mute/mic is requires a non-standard voltage phantom power from the sound module/preamp. IMO the preamp is the limiting factor in this approach, not the mute/mic.
Alternatively you could go with a piezobarrel pickup on your mouthpiece and go direct to the board that way. you would still need to mute the horn to address your volume concerns, but the sound quality is definitely better.
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Posts: 354 Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:30 pm Post subject:
Once you have the signal from your trumpet "electrified" you can start adding guitar pedals... some distortion, maybe a crybaby.... Then the poor quality of the mic won't matter so much Plus you can regain all the volume you lost by muting (and then some) by plugging into a huge amp!
Didn't Miles do something like that? _________________ Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Clarksville, Tn
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject:
Check this out. At the end he plays through the silent mute into his recording set up and you can hear the sound that is coming out of mute. Sweet!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBN39jmFEfA' _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.
Once you have the signal from your trumpet "electrified" you can start adding guitar pedals... some distortion, maybe a crybaby.... Then the poor quality of the mic won't matter so much Plus you can regain all the volume you lost by muting (and then some) by plugging into a huge amp!
Didn't Miles do something like that?
This the the main reason to do this.
Here's some Adam Rapa using the old Silent Brass with distortion
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject:
ayryq wrote:
Once you have the signal from your trumpet "electrified" you can start adding guitar pedals... some distortion, maybe a crybaby.... Then the poor quality of the mic won't matter so much Plus you can regain all the volume you lost by muting (and then some) by plugging into a huge amp!
Didn't Miles do something like that?
I have had some success with this approach - SB mute to module with headphone out to effects pedals. Mic quality really not apparent with the added distortion of the pedals. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
I'm dying to get a Silent Brass and put it through some pedals. Autotune, chord, and effects pedals with loopers would be crazy. I wish an audio tech company would make a high quality mute/mic/pickup.
I play bass guitar for fun so I already have some of the equipment. _________________ 1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68
Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Posts: 371 Location: Port Jackson, NY
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject:
I think I'm gonna go for and see how it works... if nothing else, I'll have a nice practice system.
The piezobarrel rig looks like you have to modify a mouthpiece to use it and I'm still finding my way in that area.
That dude in the studio vid had it sounding fairly decent.
The vid with Adam is interesting. I have a fairly elaborate pedalboard setup for my 'single' act with loopers, delays, etc. and that's what was getting me excited to try the SB rig. Hopefully it won't be an enormous pain in the ass!! Haha!
Anyway... Thanks for the input guys! I'll report back in a few weeks with an update!! _________________ MH
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Clarksville, Tn
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:52 pm Post subject:
One of the trombone players in the Maniacal Trombone Quartet uses a silent brass mute with effects when he plays the guitar solo on Carry On My Wayward Son.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJaX4ZpfULM _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.
Joined: 14 Apr 2011 Posts: 269 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:18 pm Post subject:
A few things:
1) If you plan on using effects and want a purely 'wet' signal into them, a Silent Brass is the go. The microphone isn't great quality, because that's not what it was intended for, but I've seen heaps of pro's use this on the gig.
2) If you plan on 'quietening' the horn, play softer or mute it or turn it down in the mix.
3) If you plan on using a microphone to record/perform/both on, get a decent ribbon microphone. I just spent a few days playing through some different mics and I'm a fan of this https://www.astonmics.com/EN/product/Mics/Spirit but try a bunch and see what you like.
Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Posts: 371 Location: Port Jackson, NY
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:59 pm Post subject:
OK so here’s where I’m at so far… Got the Silent Brass rig with the trumpet mute then ordered the mute part for Flugelhorn also.
I plugged the rig into my pedalboard mixer and that seems to work fairly well. I’m a bit disappointed with the intonation using my trumpet but then the Flugelhorn mute arrived and that works MUCH better for me so I haven’t been using the trumpet mute at all lately… planning on revisiting that though.
The mic/ preamp hasn’t been an issue for me but I’m no powerhouse player … I can see where someone with major output might potentially overdrive the mic/ pre. So far for me the sound quality should work fine.
There are a few issues I’d have to contend with for my specific usage…
The Stand… I’ll need to just pick up and play so my regular K&M stand won’t work with the mute already in the bell… will need some sort of bell crook hanging stand (maybe attached to my mic stand) so I can ‘grab & go!
Batteries… This doesn’t seem to be much of an issue as I’m still using what I initially put in there… of coarse spares should be on hand for when it does die!
Cords… I’ll need at least one longer cord. I’m thinking that main amplifier pack should be mounted up on the mic stand or the hanging trumpet stand as that would give easier access to the plugs/controls if needed. In this case probably just a longer cord from pack to mixer would do it.
Effects… I haven’t spent too much time goofing around with effects but there certainly is some fun to be had in that area. At this point I’m just using the built in verb and kicking in some delay for ‘high note hero’ antics and such… all good here.
I was kind of hoping that the mute would work in my pocket trumpet… it fits but the intonation is so bad that it makes it unusable for me. I plugged the whole rig into the ‘aux in’ jack in my car for testing with the pocket trumpet but I’m back to ear plugs and cranked sound system for any ‘mobile’ practicing.
Thus far I haven’t actually used it on any live gigs. I was hoping to try it out on a single acoustic gig last week but didn’t have enough time to get it all sorted out. I’ll report back with anything of interest after some ‘battle testing’. _________________ MH
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Plus you can regain all the volume you lost by muting (and then some) by plugging into a huge amp!
