What makes one Bach play tighter than another?

improver · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455

You can pick up 10 different Bach 37's from different and same eras and yet some blow free some tighter. Why?

zaferis · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:38 am Post subject:

Many answers to that question. Over the decades materials were inconsistent for various reasons, manufacturing processes have changed, for a while the factory was a union (auto union) shop where the goal was quantity not quality, age of the instrument, design changes, wear and tear, and one can't forget that instruments are mostly "hand-made".
That was definitely the case in the 80's - 90's.

Interestingly, two years ago I visited the factory and learned about Bach's history, processes, and reenvisioned goals/processes. I played a dozen new Bb's (190xx's) that I could barely distiguish from one another - very consistent.
Basically, they asked themselves what made the great Bach trumpets great, and made changes to return to those designs, materials, and processes.
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:26 am Post subject:

To really compare them you would need to have the valves aligned properly, the receiver gap (with the mouthpiece you use) all set the same and have the venturi size all set the same, and be sure that all have either brass or plastic valve guides.

I'll leave it to the pro repair people on TH to discuss the joys of out of round tubing, solder blobs, alignment of bell seams, types of valve cork, and beveling of the slide tubing,

(I will point out that there is little truth to the urban legend that bell brass should only be harvested from bell trees that grow on the northern shaded side of the mountains.)

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2438

time_is_mula · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:53 pm Post subject:

Variances in the manufacturing process, subtle design changes over the years, and quality control. No two horns sound the same even if it's a Yamaha.

jadickson · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:06 pm Post subject:

gap is a big thing. they are not consistent.

yourbrass · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject:

"2) Leadpipe trim (unusual that it would be off enough to be significant, but when it is...)"

The pipes can vary quite a bit, and if it's too small at the front end... choke time.
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Heim · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2438

Pete · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:43 am Post subject:

Another issue is that they make so many 37's that the inconsistency is greater. I doubt that they play test each one. Some have soldering imperfections that affects them. The gap as mentioned, valve alignment is another variable, etc. Also, on older horns like the Mt. Vernons, not all leadpipes were marked. You could have a 43 pipe with a 37 or a 43 bell and it looks like a 25 pipe is on it.

I remember years ago trying numerous Bach Strads at the same time, and could not find one that I liked. I have a 43*/43 that plays really well but is very sensitive to mouthpieces/gap. My 8310Z is not that sensitive to mouthpiece changes.

Pete

Beyond16

Speed · Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:31 am Post subject:

I'll start out by declaring that I prefer very open, low resistance trumpets. That said, I like the sound of a Bach 37.

I've really tried to play a Bach 37, all the way back to high school days. In those days, it was not uncommon to find six or eight 37s in a fair sized music store. After my dad backed the car over my mid-50s Olds Mendez, we were in the market for a new trumpet.

We went to the music store that carried Bach, and I played everyone they had. Not that a Mendez was exactly a free blowing trumpet, but every single Bach I tried felt like I was blowing up against a brick wall. I ended up buying a Getzen Severinsen.

Through the years, I continued to play test 37s. When the Anniversary 19037s came out, I played one and it felt really good. It was by some good measure the least resistant 37 I had ever played. I bought it.

It turned out to have some issues, which were covered by warranty, and Bach sent me a new 19037. It just didn't blow the same as the first one, and it was noticeably more resistant. It's now had a complete blueprinting at Osmun, including a valve alignment. It now has a 25-0 leadpipe and a "C" shaped tuning slide, which did open it up a bit, but it's still a tight blow, at least by my standards. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

On the other hand, my current main player is a large bore Bach Commercial Trumpet. It is pleasantly non-resistant. That tells me that Bach knows how to build an open blowing trumpet, but for whatever reason, they choose not to do so with the 37.

As popular as the 37 is, I can only assume that I'm in a distinct minority of trumpet players who want an open blowing non-resistant instrument.

Take care,
Marc Speed

mdarnton · Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:59 am Post subject:

I'm really a beginner, but when I read about clocking mouthpieces I figured I'd try it. Not only is there a huge difference, but now I can tell when I didn't clock it by how it plays, even though I can barely play, really. That gave me a whole new appreciation for how delicate the sound is. When I think of all the things in a trumpet that can go ALMOST right. . . .