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bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
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 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:13 pm Post subject: Identifying the corr right shank taper |
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| I have one Hawk flugelhorn that definitely takes a Long Morse Taper mouthpiece. Another flugelhorn's unbranded, with an indeterminate shank. If I put a Standard taper mouthpiece inside the unbranded flugelhorn, it inserts a little further inside the lead pipe than the Hawk. Not only that, but to tune, the lead pipe must be pulled out markedly farther than what's necessary to tune the Hawk. Could it be I have a Bach taper on that particular horn? (The vendors know nothing about it. The nearest brass repair guy knows nothing of the various flugelhorn shank. |
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:00 am Post subject: |
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I would GUESS that it is a Bach style or Small Morse Taper. The French taper is pretty rare -my opinion.
info from MouhthpieceExpresss.com:
LARGE Morse taper
Commonly known as Standard Taper. Fits all Yamaha, Getzen, Callet, Stomvi, Benge, King, Blessing, Conn Vintage One, Weril, Holton, Schilke, older Kanstul 1525 flugelhorns, Austin Custom flugelhorns, Allure, Jupiter, and most other “American” flugelhorns except Bach.
SMALL Morse taper
The so-called Bach Taper. Fits Bach, Courtois, CarolBrass, LeBlanc (including Sandoval), B&S, Taylor, RS Berkeley, and some other European brands, plus Kanstul models 725, 1025, and newer 1525.
FRENCH (straight) taper
Also known as Couesnon Taper. The French taper is used by original Couesnons, Flip Oakes "Wild Thing," Kanstul CCF 925, and original F. Besson flugelhorns.
Then, don't be shy about how far the tuning slide/leadpipe has to be pulled. IMO this is a design thing - My Yamaha pulls about 3/4 of an inch, my Bach pulls 2 inches. Outside of the "taper" (I use the proper ones) the mouthpiece is the same-both Currcy 3FL.
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bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | I would GUESS that it is a Bach style or Small Morse Taper. The French taper is pretty rare -my opinion.
info from MouhthpieceExpresss.com:
LARGE Morse taper
Commonly known as Standard Taper. Fits all Yamaha, Getzen, Callet, Stomvi, Benge, King, Blessing, Conn Vintage One, Weril, Holton, Schilke, older Kanstul 1525 flugelhorns, Austin Custom flugelhorns, Allure, Jupiter, and most other “American” flugelhorns except Bach.
SMALL Morse taper
The so-called Bach Taper. Fits Bach, Courtois, CarolBrass, LeBlanc (including Sandoval), B&S, Taylor, RS Berkeley, and some other European brands, plus Kanstul models 725, 1025, and newer 1525.
FRENCH (straight) taper
Also known as Couesnon Taper. The French taper is used by original Couesnons, Flip Oakes "Wild Thing," Kanstul CCF 925, and original F. Besson flugelhorns.
Then, don't be shy about how far the tuning slide/leadpipe has to be pulled. IMO this is a design thing - My Yamaha pulls about 3/4 of an inch, my Bach pulls 2 inches. Outside of the "taper" (I use the proper ones) the mouthpiece is the same-both Currcy 3FL. |
I think I know who you are. You had curly blond hair, played a Benge trumpet & traveled around to various public schools in NH with some other instrumenttalists. |
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bassguy wrote: | | I think I know who you are. You had curly blond hair, played a Benge trumpet & traveled around to various public schools in NH with some other instrumenttalists. |
Went to UNH, did play a Benge for a while, did travel around NE with USAF band (quintet often) BUT definitely not blonde nor curly.
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JeffM729
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Location: Parrish, FL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| As long as your mouthpiece doesn't wobble in the lead pipe, you have the correct taper mouthpiece most likely. How far it inserts and how far you have to pull the pipe out for tuning is likely just a difference between the instruments. |
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zaferis
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| JeffM729 wrote: | | As long as your mouthpiece doesn't wobble in the lead pipe, you have the correct taper mouthpiece most likely..... |
I'll disagree with this. A Standard (large morse) will "fit" in many small morse receivers, may not wobble, but NOT in the proper manner, and can pretty significantly change the tuning and tendencies of the Flugel. Proper fit will make a difference.
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JeffM729
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Location: Parrish, FL
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | JeffM729 wrote: | | As long as your mouthpiece doesn't wobble in the lead pipe, you have the correct taper mouthpiece most likely..... |
I'll disagree with this. A Standard (large morse) will "fit" in many small morse receivers, may not wobble, but NOT in the proper manner, and can pretty significantly change the tuning and tendencies of the Flugel. Proper fit will make a difference. |
"I have one Hawk flugelhorn that definitely takes a Long Morse Taper mouthpiece. Another flugelhorn's unbranded, with an indeterminate shank. If I put a Standard taper mouthpiece inside the unbranded flugelhorn, it inserts a little further inside the lead pipe than the Hawk."
This would indicate to me that a small Morse taper mouthpiece would insert even more deeply into the unbranded flugelhorn. That was my assumption that the large Morse taper is the correct one. A large Morse taper mouthpiece wouldn't insert very far into a small Morse receiver and surely not deeper. |
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Flip Oakes
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Joined: 20 Feb 2002
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Location: Oceanside, CA USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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The German taper has a long shank very much like a Bb Trumpet mpc. It could be a German taper... I have had special orders for those on occasions.
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iiipopes
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Has anybody taken into account the receiver may be worn as well, so that no particular taper fits anymore?
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bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| JeffM729 wrote: | | As long as your mouthpiece doesn't wobble in the lead pipe, you have the correct taper mouthpiece most likely. How far it inserts and how far you have to pull the pipe out for tuning is likely just a difference between the instruments. |
Yes, I bought a used Curry 60 FL (Bach taper) mpc & its shank is way too narrow for the lead pipe so now I know it's a large Morse taper |
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bassguy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| iiipopes wrote: | | Has anybody taken into account the receiver may be worn as well, so that no particular taper fits anymore? |
I purchased the eBay horn last year. It IS simply a design thing |
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bassguy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | JeffM729 wrote: | | As long as your mouthpiece doesn't wobble in the lead pipe, you have the correct taper mouthpiece most likely..... |
I'll disagree with this. A Standard (large morse) will "fit" in many small morse receivers, may not wobble, but NOT in the proper manner, and can pretty significantly change the tuning and tendencies of the Flugel. Proper fit will make a difference. |
In fact my receivers are standard, & the Bach tapered Curry 60FL I threw $45 away on swims inside both the receivers (that is the .460" Hawk & the .413" unbranded.
BTW,the Hawk has perfect intonation, the .413" has good intonation except for E & A within the staff which are a bit too sharp using valves 12, & flat using valve 3. Easy fix would be to have a 1st valve trigger replace the 3rd valve trigger. Is that a pricey modification? I ask here because I don't want to start a new thread. |
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