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trumpetchops
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: Maybe a new mouthpiece |
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For years I played a lot of classical type stuff. Still I did some big band.
I have two mouthpieces I use, one for lead and the other for everything else.
Lately I've been playing a lot of lead and not much classical. Now, the lead piece works well but, it's been really hard to go to my all around mouthpiece.
If I practise a lot with the classical mouthpiece I get by.
I've messed around with a smaller mouthpiece. It seems to work for the short term.
Any ideas?
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Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Are you using the same rim on both mouthpieces?
I prefer having all my pieces with the same rim,except for the pic.
Some players can switch between different rims (sometimes wildly different) for different types of playing. |
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Richard III
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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What is the question?
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Richard
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zaferis
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:12 am Post subject: |
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So little information to make even a reasonable guess at your situation... What are you playing on? Is there an issue other than, you have to practice to make the shift - um! yes, practice, prepare. Are there tone or articulation issues? Are you just running out of gas? -- out of shape or fighting the instrument too much.???
Some players, including myself, find it easier to move from one trumpet/style to another with the same rim on all mouthpieces. Some players don't. Either way practicing on all to some degree is pretty universal. It's hard to pick up an unfamiliar instrument and feel comfortable, and this gets amplified if you then have to play a lot on that unfamiliar setup.
For me, using Curry 3 mouthpieces on all of my trumpets, cornets, and flugel, maximizes my comfort (chops know what it feels like), and minimizes time needed to settle into each instrumet. I still fiind time to "touch" each one, especially when I'll be needing that ax for an extended or ongoing thing...
Plan ahead, be prepared...
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Maybe a new mouthpiece |
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| trumpetchops wrote: | For years I played a lot of classical type stuff. Still I did some big band.
I have two mouthpieces I use, one for lead and the other for everything else.
Lately I've been playing a lot of lead and not much classical. Now, the lead piece works well but, it's been really hard to go to my all around mouthpiece.
If I practise a lot with the classical mouthpiece I get by.
I've messed around with a smaller mouthpiece. It seems to work for the short term.
Any ideas? |
Same dilemma (=Wordsworth concise English dictionnary says: a position where each of two alternative courses is eminently undesirable. The argument was called a "horned syllogism" -hence the horns of a dilemma".....) - in my case but also complicated by one horn leadtrumpet other horn brassband (front row) cornet. I finally solved it (so I thought) by finding two mpc:s with just about the same rim and cupe shape - V cupish. However practicing a lot on the cornet mpc, before a concert, resulted in wobbly high register on the trumpet. Hmm. What to do? So I changed habits starting to practice almost exclusively on trumpet/tptmpc. Which boosted my cornet playing a lot - up to a certain point; As of now - big band concert coming up I practice several hours a day, high register licks abundant - resulting in difficulties in the brassband. The deeper cornet mpc, me playing in a different register (G below staff up to high C, mostly below G top of staff, seems to require a certain lead in period, playing low C:s etc kinda ruining my chops - getting sour, non-responsive. However after the mid-rehearsal coffebreak chops seemingly recover, somewhat. As if the shape dictated by the heavy trumpet-mpc practice somehow has to switch into another gear, sort of. Just practicing trumpet/mpc - to a concert band standard - boosted my brassband playing. So it seems that too intensive upper register training (of course combined with intervalls etc, even pedals, I am deep in the BE method) can be detrimental.
Now I am an amateur, an old one besides that. And lead mpc and front row cornet mpc are very different - let alone same kind of rim.
So a possible solution is 1)same rim 2)same kind of cup 3) cup depth in lead piece not extreme 4)allow a certain "lead in" period - maybe switch to required mpc at least a day before. In my case impossible ´cause big band rehearsal day before brassband rehearsal.
Also 5) focusing on practicing intervals, octave jumps (at least G below staff up to high C, quaver=80; The BE way is double pedal C up to high C - very difficult indeed if elegance is "on demand".
The general idea to make the lips accustomed to the conflicting demands.
The dilemma in itself not too big, admittedly vague and probably personal!
ps: thought popped up: maybe this might have something to do with the lip positions? High register/lead more of roll in, low register more roll out; deeper mouthpiece requiring more roll out, sort of; roll out=more puckered; high register less puckered? Larger space with deeper mpc:s meaning more lip in?? 
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Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tobylou8
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm not a gearhead, so take this with a grain of salt. Stick with the "lead" mpc and make it work for everything. I'll not forget getting upbraided by a gigging pro for my comments about a certain mpc being a great high note piece, but totally worthless in the lower register. He let me have it! "The only reason it doesn't work," he said, "Is you're too lazy to learn to use it"!
I'd copy and paste his response, but it's at the apparently defunt TM forum. |
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trumpetchops
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Tobylou8 wrote: | I'm not a gearhead, so take this with a grain of salt. Stick with the "lead" mpc and make it work for everything. I'll not forget getting upbraided by a gigging pro for my comments about a certain mpc being a great high note piece, but totally worthless in the lower register. He let me have it! "The only reason it doesn't work," he said, "Is you're too lazy to learn to use it"!
I'd copy and paste his response, but it's at the apparently defunt TM forum. |
I tried using the lead piece for everything. I can make it work as far as being able to play the trumpet but, the sound is really too bright.
I think the answer is that the 2 mouthpieces are just too different. Going from a big deep mouthpiece to the more shallow and not having to be exact (once in a while) in my playing was easy. Now that I'm playing a lot of lead and shows, I'm going the other way. Trying to go from the shallower piece that I use most to the too big MP that I don't play enough.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Can you find a version of the lead that isn't as bright? Same rim, but deeper? Maybe play on it 5 minutes a day and then more heading into a performance?
To me it sounds like that any given time one mouthpiece is an A (= excellent, perfect match) for you while the other degrades to a C-. It is possible to bump the C- up to a B and live with that? |
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| trumpetchops wrote: | I tried using the lead piece for everything. I can make it work as far as being able to play the trumpet but, the sound is really too bright.
I think the answer is that the 2 mouthpieces are just too different. Going from a big deep mouthpiece to the more shallow and not having to be exact (once in a while) in my playing was easy. Now that I'm playing a lot of lead and shows, I'm going the other way. Trying to go from the shallower piece that I use most to the too big MP that I don't play enough. |
Hi Joe
It might be that you have mixed up your practice needs for the types of ensemble playing you are doing. all you need to do is practice using both mouthpieces, even if you are not playing a 'legit' gig this week, to keep you hand, of lip in, so to speak.
It's much the same as many players practising on their piccolo or flugel, even if not actively playing it at that moment. The skill they are maintaining is to be able to switch between these instruments, orin your case, mouthpieces...
So get the legit mouthpiece out and warm up on it every second day, and use it to cycle through parts of your daily routine: lip slurs, scales, etc.
cheers
Andy
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trumpetchops
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | | trumpetchops wrote: | I tried using the lead piece for everything. I can make it work as far as being able to play the trumpet but, the sound is really too bright.
I think the answer is that the 2 mouthpieces are just too different. Going from a big deep mouthpiece to the more shallow and not having to be exact (once in a while) in my playing was easy. Now that I'm playing a lot of lead and shows, I'm going the other way. Trying to go from the shallower piece that I use most to the too big MP that I don't play enough. |
Hi Joe
It might be that you have mixed up your practice needs for the types of ensemble playing you are doing. all you need to do is practice using both mouthpieces, even if you are not playing a 'legit' gig this week, to keep you hand, of lip in, so to speak.
It's much the same as many players practising on their piccolo or flugel, even if not actively playing it at that moment. The skill they are maintaining is to be able to switch between these instruments, orin your case, mouthpieces...
So get the legit mouthpiece out and warm up on it every second day, and use it to cycle through parts of your daily routine: lip slurs, scales, etc.
cheers
Andy |
I think I need to ditch the legit mouthpiece. I at the least, warm up on the legit everyday. I never practise on the lead MP.
If I play lead on Saturday night and then have to play sunday morning in church I have real trouble.
Today I practiced on a smaller MP. I might make the change.
Now I have another problem. This is the wrong forum for this but, I play Monette equipment. If I change my B-flat mouthpiece I have to also change my C and D and E-flat. It's an expensive change.
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Joe Spitzer
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Andy Del
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Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| trumpetchops wrote: |
I think I need to ditch the legit mouthpiece. I at the least, warm up on the legit everyday. I never practise on the lead MP.
If I play lead on Saturday night and then have to play sunday morning in church I have real trouble.
Now I have another problem. This is the wrong forum for this but, I play Monette equipment. If I change my B-flat mouthpiece I have to also change my C and D and E-flat. It's an expensive change. |
You see, this is why seeking advice can be so risky - this is new information! So your playing on a Saturday night has no effect on your playing on Sunday morning, and it's the fault of your Sunday morning mouthpiece?
Putting it bluntly like this shows that you need to consider how you finish up on your paying Saturday gigs, and also how you warm up on Sundays.
Does this happen all week?
Is it the same if you have a heavy playing session in a legit situation the night before?
What sort of warmup do you do in the morning that leaves you not playing well?
Can you ever play well on the legit mouthpiece?
There is a lot more to think through before pulling the trigger on, as you admit, a rather expensive exercise in mouthpiece purchasing...
Could you:
Adjust your practicing regime to put sufficient time into the bigger mouthpiece (which you warn up on but don't play enough?
Take the tie to warm up better and be better prepared to play on the larger mpc?
Maybe consider a lead mpc which matches the larger legit mpc? It will be cheaper in the long run...
cheers
Andy
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lipshurt
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 am Post subject: |
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i would say you are experiencing what happens when your two mouthpieces have different "alpha angels" which refers to area just below the edge of the rim. The angle there can be very different from one piece to another. Some shallow pieces hae a really steep drop down that is almost straight down. Some angle down on much more of a slant. Your chops get used to that angle and it becomes part of how they work. its better for switching if that area stays the same.
On a bob reeves screw rim, the place where the rim meets the cup is a whopping .125 or so down from the high point of the rim. About half of the cup depth is attached to the rim so that angle stays constant. Its a great system that works for switching.
if you are having trouble switching its because of the angles dont match closely enough.
Research from there and see where you get
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:09 am Post subject: |
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No suggestions, but I 'm confused about exactly is going on!
It seems there are 3 mpc being discussed - a 'lead', a 'legit', and a 'smaller'.
If you play the 'lead' on Sat night, would ANY of them be more satisfactory on Sunday morning?
Could you use the 'smaller' on Sat night, and then use the 'smaller' or the 'legit' on Sunday?
Jay
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| trumpetchops wrote: | ... I think I need to ditch the legit mouthpiece. I at the least, warm up on the legit everyday. I never practise on the lead MP.
If I play lead on Saturday night and then have to play sunday morning in church I have real trouble.
Today I practiced on a smaller MP. I might make the change.
... |
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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trumpetchops
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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If I were to stop playing lead and just played on the bigger mouthpiece, I would be fine with it. If I don't play lead for a few days the problem is gone.
If I play lead on Saturday night and even if I get beat up, I can use the lead MP in church the next day. The sound is a bit bright for church work though. If I were to just go ahead and use the lead piece anyway, I think I would risk not being called back.
For some reason, when I only played lead once a week, this combination worked well. I think now that I'm playing that type of music so much, the lead piece is becoming my main mouthpiece.
I'm not a full time player. I have a day job so I can't put in the time required (I think) to make both things work as they should.
Someone above said maybe change the lead piece. I tried, 2 people in 2 different bands advised me to stay where I was.
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Andy Del
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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So the issue is the change over from Saturday night to Sunday morning.
What do you DO to help this? Here is the key to your situation; which I suspect is not even a problem or issue, but a matter of how you are doing things. So far, I can't see this information! (if I missed it, I apologise!)
cheers
Andy
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trumpetchops
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | So the issue is the change over from Saturday night to Sunday morning.
What do you DO to help this? Here is the key to your situation; which I suspect is not even a problem or issue, but a matter of how you are doing things. So far, I can't see this information! (if I missed it, I apologise!)
cheers
Andy |
I don't understand the question.
This morning I will go to band practise and play lead. I don't have a gig tonight so I will practise a little. I'm sure I will have trouble on the bigger MP. I will probably warm up on some clark and then if I don't feel good I'll play Charlier or some solos from the back of Arban. Nothing that goes too high.
Tomorrow when I pick up the trumpet it will be hit or miss on the bigger MP. It doesn't matter because I have to play a parade. I'm sure they'll put me on first and so I'm back on the lead MP. I'm sure I won't play again after the parade.
Monday morning it will be hit or miss when I pick up the trumpet and so it goes on.
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JVL
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:08 am Post subject: |
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hello
i resolved this kind of issue practicing everyday all kind of exercices & stuff with my lead and Bach A style cup depth (26 throat, sympho bb) mpcs, so switching during gig, chart, or from day to day is not a prob at at all.
But i've to be more regular with my flug mpc, otherwise register above high D becomes dangerous during gig 
Precision : all my mpcs have the same rim (OD, ID, contour)
best |
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Tobylou8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetchops wrote: | | Tobylou8 wrote: | I'm not a gearhead, so take this with a grain of salt. Stick with the "lead" mpc and make it work for everything. I'll not forget getting upbraided by a gigging pro for my comments about a certain mpc being a great high note piece, but totally worthless in the lower register. He let me have it! "The only reason it doesn't work," he said, "Is you're too lazy to learn to use it"!
I'd copy and paste his response, but it's at the apparently defunt TM forum. |
I tried using the lead piece for everything. I can make it work as far as being able to play the trumpet but, the sound is really too bright.
I think the answer is that the 2 mouthpieces are just too different. Going from a big deep mouthpiece to the more shallow and not having to be exact (once in a while) in my playing was easy. Now that I'm playing a lot of lead and shows, I'm going the other way. Trying to go from the shallower piece that I use most to the too big MP that I don't play enough. |
Well, I'll tell you what the gigging pro told me (he plays everything). You haven't practiced enough with it. If you're playing more lead, how is that a problem? |
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