Embouchure change

[noahprince]

Who has changed their embouchure before? How long did it take? Why did you change it?

I have a strange one in which my top lip almost comes over the mouthpiece and i feel like I need to change it. What did you do to begin this process?

Thanks.
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Noah Prince

[Andy Del]

I have to 'adjust' things before and 'change' things over the decades. the VERY first thing you need is expert guidance. The very best you can afford as this will save you $$$ in the long run.

Then you need patience and realise you are not changing, you are creating something new: a new habit which takes some time to do, a degree of patience and perseverance.

For the practical side of things - you describe a setting where the mouthpiece is far too low and your top lip falls out. So, the thing to do is play with the mouthpiece siting lower down. 50/50 is nice, depending on your facial shapes. This is where the teacher comes in. If there is no one local, get someone on-line.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[solo soprano]

90% of embouchure corrections that teachers make is because the students mpc. was placed too low.
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Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music

[epoustoufle]

Have a look at this video.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y0uuFa59brVvSCcdo49YT6OeDOSeEq_q/preview?fbclid=IwAR3398ByC5Pw8kyH0DK5V_Cs6gwkxX1e96_lNWP4cLsfSNzwYdmIWQmE7TI

It's a lesson by someone who is a member on this site (Billy, I believe). Wow what a relaxed, stress-free way to play. Wish I had started like this!

[gwood66]

I changed my embouchure during my 10th grade year in high school. At the time I played off to the side with most of my top lip out of the mouthpiece. I started the change over the summer with the help of my band director (a tuba player) who passed me off to a college senior at the local college for weekly lessons. The whole process took the better part of the summer and school year (6-8 months). Be prepared to be frustrated almost daily and have your will tested.

You play the way you do currently for a reason. Make sure that you understand what that is before you start so that the root cause of your issue is corrected. That is the importance of having a good instructor.

Good luck.

[Lionel]

[omelet]

I have. A while ago I had changed my jaw position which was way wide open. This was a big change to me that took months to get back to where I was. It can be disheartening and frustrating. It would help to not have any need to perform while making a big change.
The way you play now is muscle memory kind of learning. It takes time and consistency. I think probably the more change you do at once, the harder it is to be consistent.

[JayKosta]

This!

[Lionel]

Most times when I've seen an embouchure change prescribed I haven't seen an adequate explanatiin of why the old chop setting was deficicient. Nor why the proposed change was better. I've seen explanations. I just didn't agree with them.

That isn't to say that there aren't poorly performing chop settings. We see these. every day. An embouchure is comparable to a clarinet reed, ligature and mouthpiece combination. All of the parts must be assembled properly. Otherwise the music eill suffer. There's only one proper way to assemble a clarinet.

While there are variances in trumpet embouchure formations? You must choose one without liitations. Unless you're able to accept those limitations.

And much depends upon what the trumpet player is striving for. If he doesn't want to play a high C? Maybe almost any embouchure formation will work. Except for the absurd. But if he wants to be a powerful lead player? He "must assemble the parts correctly". Without exception.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[noahprince]

I appreciate all of the remarks and links. Very helpful. I feel that whenever I was younger, I pushed my bottom lip into the cup more as this allowed me to instantly play higher. The more I push up on the mpc with my top lip barely in it the higher I can play, however the sound is pinched, inconsistent, and extremely unreliable. So I feel that my current embouchure has just been a shortcut.

I have already been working on my own on getting more of the top lip into the cup and plan to make the full switch over the Summer and also get a teacher to assist me and aim to get back to where I am now sometime in the fall.

I don't care to necessarily be a screaming lead player, however sometimes I struggle to even get out of the staff, or I feel like I can't play for long at all. I just want to be able to consistently hit a D/Eb and have that extra gear to get me to a high G. I am more of a jazz combo/soloist player and just want the full range of the instrument to be accessible. I feel like I have soo many good ideas in my improv but what a waste when I can't even have the chops to get my ideas across. I thought that I wasn't practicing enough but I practice for about 4 hours on average everyday and I feel like I've just been hitting a wall and possibly hurting my chops with how my mpc. is currently placed.

Thanks again for the comments. Very appreciated.
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Noah Prince

[dstdenis]

I made an embouchure change during my senior year in high school. I had physically outgrown the mouthpiece I was using at the time and unintentionally developed a habit of rolling my bottom lip in over my bottom teeth. This was my subconscious way of getting enough lip inside the rim. It was causing problems, and my teacher and I agreed that I should change to a more conventional setup. I also moved to a larger mouthpiece, which helped reduce the urge/need to roll in.

It took a few months to get my feet under me with the new way of playing. I had to concentrate really hard to avoid lapsing back into the old way. And for years afterward, I still had to remind myself to set up and play the new way. After a while, the new way became normal and I no longer had to think about it.

BTW, if you haven't seen it, here's an interview with Tom Hooten where he described an embouchure change he did while in grad school. He was motivated and determined, and he felt he had to do something, so he took ownership of his situation and made it work. Interesting read.
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Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
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[JayKosta]

[scottfsmith]

I have been working on my embouchure for over a year. I joke that I am on “embouchure #9” now.. For me at least its not like I just moved to the new thing and it was double high C’s all night after a few weeks of getting used to it, it has been a step by step journey with it getting a little better each time. I expect its also that way for other people, especially those pushing 60 like myself. It just takes time to figure out what muscles you are supposed to use and what you are supposed to be doing with the lips, mouthpiece, and muscles.

Just last week I switched to #9 from #8. I thought #8 was great, but I had a lesson and my teacher pointed out my lips were rolled in too much. So its been back to free buzzing and mouthpiece buzzing to help me learn #9. Its not a lot different from #8, but its definitely an improvement. In a little over a year I have gone to only being able to play a high C with a near-hernia of effort to being able to play pp long tone high C’s.

Which brings me to my main point. I don’t think I would have ever figured out how to get my #2, #3, ... #8 going let alone #9 without my teacher. We know a lot more about the mechanics of trumpet embouchures today and experts are out there who can really make a difference in your playing. How many professional baseball pitchers don’t have a coach who is videoing every single twitch in their swing and offering adjustments? You guessed it, none — every pitcher today is getting their swing adjusted. That’s because there is a game that needs to be won, now. It’s less clear on the trumpet and many players spend their lives playing on a weak embouchure because they are in a rut and there is no force (like threat of transfer to the minors) to get them out of it.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
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[Billy B]

[iiipopes]

Age. We all lose some vital capacity as we age. I am now 57 years old. When I "came back" to trumpet playing after many years, even though I primarily play tuba, when an ensemble I am in needed a 1st section player, I was appalled at myself not having the stamina I had in high school and college in the late '70s and '80's with the standard mid-70's Bach 3C I purchased and played then and still have on the shelf. After a mouthpiece safari, and help from friends who were trumpet majors in college , including one who taught beginning band with an emphasis in instrument fitting, it became apparent it was not my embouchure, but my breath support. So I purchased a 3C with the slightly tighter #76 backbore instead of the stock #10 backbore. This gave just enough resistance to help me manage my breath support and get my endurance back, as well as cleaning up intonation since I could focus on playing and not "managing." Range? I never had that great of a range, even back then, but good enough for concert band literature. I can tell you my range and technique is really no less than back then, even though I will always struggle with endurance, as I did then, in spite of everything: different approaches, different practice literature, different teachers, etc. It is just who I am who loves to play trumpet.
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