Nockoff vs namebrand

Lqbanotxano · New Member Joined: 26 Dec 2018 Posts: 10 Location: Texas

Is there an actual difference from a nockoff to a namebrand mouth piece... besides the price, obviously.

ayryq · Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:31 pm Post subject:

I think you should be more specific about what you're talking about. For example if by "name brand" you mean "Bach" and by "knock-off" you mean "Curry", the knock-off is probably made better, and more consistently (and costs more). But it is a knock-off, I guess, because he patterned his mouthpieces after certain Bach originals. Is that what you're talking about?
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grune · Regular Member Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 67

If you mean "no-name", then yes there can be big differences, or small differences: doubtful a no-name will be exactly the same as a brand original.
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Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596

As far as I'm aware machining is pretty much the same no matter where it's made. If a manufacturer takes care in setting things up there might be no discernible difference particularly in this age of computer scanning capabilities and computer-controlled machining. I think all mp makers are capable of replicating someone else's mouthpiece.

I have various no-name mp's that came with Chinese horns, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them, they play fine. You might find you like the "knockoff" better.
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ayryq · Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:27 am Post subject:

Maybe someone who knows can comment on blank quality and plating quality - can cheaper/worse materials be substituted?
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Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet

zaferis · Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:11 am Post subject:

Where we measure mouthpiece specs to the thousandths of an inch.. AND how a mouthpiece plays is about the balance between elements - making the smallest of changes has a large affect.

You can still buy a new "name-brand" mouthpiece for less than $75.. IMO not worth buying some $20 mouhtpiece looking piece of metal.

A young, developing student won't necessariy notice the difference, accept in the strong possibilty that it's not helping you learn to play well/hoding you back.. which you won't notice for years.

Spend the little extra cash! Buy new (not used): Bach, Yamaha, Curry, Picket, Schilke, Stork, Warburton, etc, etc....
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JayKosta · Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:05 am Post subject:

If a mouthpiece is intentionally made to sell at a lower price, it's likely to include some cost-cutting properties. Such as: thinner silver plate, less smooth finish, lower cost brass, less consistent dimensions (criteria for out-of-spec is larger), etc.

That doesn't mean that an individual one can't play nicely, but the plating might wear quickly, and a replacement might be quite different.

Jay
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PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
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Andy Del · Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject:

this is just whistling in the wind unless you consider WHICH 'knockoff' mouthpiece compared to WHICH branded one.

For example, compare Bach and Faxx mouthpieces. The Faxx are much cheaper copies of Mt Vernon exemplars. I used these for almost 20 years in a school with great results.

But take Kelly plastic mouthpieces. Copies of similar originals, mostly, and they are not all that great, unless you have young kids who get switched on by pretty colours (young french horn kids love a beer coloured mpc!) Both these and Faxx appear to be VERY consistent!

I recently played a Monette copy, which felt distinctly ordinary.

The exact mouthpiece, makers, size and application are all going to have an effect. the only way to tell is pony up the $$$ and see.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

Josef Klier in Germany makes good copies of Bach mouthpieces. They call them the USA models. I like the 1 1/4C better than the modern Bach . The backbore is much bigger than a standard Bach, and I prefer the rim as well. The Bach is much tighter. In this case, I will go for the JK. They come with a 28 hole as standard, as well as a 25 hole. JK claims that they are Mt. Vernon copies. What can I say? I prefer the knockoff.

Lqbanotxano · New Member Joined: 26 Dec 2018 Posts: 10 Location: Texas

Thanks for all the answers.....

B. Scriver · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:39 am Post subject:

A knock off is only a way to use prior engineering and reputation that is successful, and try to steal some money. It's not about making something better, or higher standards. It's about making money off of the hard work and innovation of others.

If that was not the case why would people not copy the knock offs?

Gary Radtke
www.grmouthpieces.com

cheiden · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:54 am Post subject:

I take knockoff to mean a no-name piece with a with either a similar number or at least a claim to being equivalent. I've never played one I liked at all. The Faxx and Kelly pieces I've played have been alright players though I won't claim that they play the same as what they're copied from.
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jazztrumpetbill · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:44 am Post subject:

I am not sure why you would purchase a "knockoff" (not nockoff). In the brass world, trumpet/cornet mouthpieces are relatively inexpensive. Why not support the professionals making the originals?? Or buy used on marketplace? Have you noticed the zillions of used mouthpieces for sale every day!
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Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

Sometimes the knockoffs are better than the originals.

jazztrumpetbill · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:58 am Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject:

For me...
Knockoff = Bad copy, usually worse than the original
Clone = Better copy, usually different, sometimes worse, occasionally better
Custom = Something that doesn't necessarily claim to like anything else

I suppose the most likely reason to buy a clone is if you either don't want, or can't afford, any of a number of particularly expensive pieces.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart