Hardest Springs

blasticore · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:06 pm Post subject: Hardest Springs

What are the hardest springs available? I've been searching for a while now, and all people seem to be interested in, is lighter and lighter sets.
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gchun01 · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Mar 2013 Posts: 270

Don’t know if these are the heaviest, but they are definitely heavier than the Schilke stock springs:

https://reverb.com/item/5697892-high-speed-valve-springs-for-trumpet

yourbrass · Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject:

The stock springs for King trumpets take the cake currently. Very stiff.
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James Becker · Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:34 am Post subject:

loweredsixth · Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 am Post subject:

Mr. Becker, do you know of very stiff springs that would fit the Hoxon Gakki valves? I prefer the feel and performance of stiffer springs. The lightweight "fast" springs most people prefer just feel mushy to me.

Thanks for any information you can give.
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blasticore · Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject:

yourbrass · Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:19 pm Post subject:

JoeLoeffler · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243

Often people want harder springs thinking they will make the valve action feel crisper. On most makes, the stock springs are just fine and are nicely balanced. Rarely, they are not (I can think of one maker whose springs I regularly change...) Many people actually would get the benefits they are looking for by switching to harder alignment pads. Many shops have started to align valves with squishy foam materials that do not stop the valve positively. The valve can compress the material quite a bit and squish past its intended stopping point. Dense felt, cork, cork composite, or various rubbers all give better, firmer hits and really make the valve action feel crisp without the need for heavy springs.

loweredsixth · Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:47 am Post subject:

blasticore · Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:11 am Post subject:

Thinking this over, no one here has mentioned the weight of the moving piston assembly made up of the piston, stem and finger button.

King Silver Flair trumpets originally were built with aluminium stems and buttons which made for a very light and quick action. The problem was these were silver plated rather than anodized so the finish failed. Unfortunately King changed over to brass stems and buttons which made the action more "clunky" in my opinion.

I posted elsewhere that Bach piston weight in recent years increased from 33 grams to 39 grams each, at 6 grams that's nearly 20% more.

Conn Constellation piston assemblies are among some of the heaviest made. Given the opportunity I machined away portions of the bottom of the piston and made action rods from 1/4" aluminium rod stock then added lightweight finger buttons. The end results were striking, making the action feel more on par with other maker's valve action.

As for lubrication, we've found Dennis Wick valve oil with PTFE (particles of Teflon added) contributes to very quick valve action. Kudos to Will Spencer for formulating this amazing product!

So you see, there's much more to quick valve action than just changing spring tension.

Cheers!
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Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
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blasticore · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:18 am Post subject:

yourbrass · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:48 am Post subject:

The irony is that your 90B had King springs, which are among the heaviest in the industry, but it still wasn't enough to give good action!

Action is also influenced by the pad material, whether felt, or cork, or synthetic, as others have said. Once you find the spring you like, try messing around with different types of pads.

On my old Benges, light springs and synthetic pads are ideal, but on my Schilke synthetic feels "clunky", and I went back to cork and felt, which feels great.

Good Luck.
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

blasticore · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:17 am Post subject:

yourbrass · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject:

Yes, King trombone slides, the standard of the industry. However, the older they are, the more probability of needing inner slide replacement for the best action. The Slide Doctor told me some years ago that the slides being made in Eastlake, OH are as good, if not better, as any in the past.

-Lionel
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

James Becker · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:29 am Post subject:

BraeGrimes · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:00 pm Post subject:

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject:

Steve Hollahan · Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:33 am Post subject: Valve springs

Many years ago, my trumpet teacher, Joseph Valenti, taught me how to increase and decrease valve springs. Slight pulss lengthening the spring one by one increases valve spring action. Decreasing by rubbing spring between thumb and forefinger decreases spring pressure.

Lightening 3rd valve spring and strengthening 2nd valve also balances action for better feel on valves. I still do this today on horns I repair.

Also, Schilke trumpets use to have 2 sets of valve springs. One slightly heavier than the other. Check on line to see if a different spring is still available.
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