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Jazzerfred
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 Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:32 am Post subject: Bud Brisbois breathing exercise |
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Hi guys,
I heard about a Bud breathing exercise, something like breathing in with your hands on the side of your chest with no shirt on!?
Can anyone shed any light on this or have you had any success!?
Cheers,
Fred |
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Jchtrumpet1
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Jazzerfred
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Joe, do you have any experience of it or found it useful?
Best,
Fred |
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Jchtrumpet1
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NikolaTomic
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:44 am Post subject: |
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I would put the Brisbois exercise and the Timed Panting in a list of the top five easiest and fastest ways to improve your trumpet playing. You don't have to take my word or that of anyone else for it, though. Give them a try for a week, and find out for yourself what happens to your sound, range, and flexibility.
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ayryq
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| NikolaTomic wrote: | | I would put the Brisbois exercise and the Timed Panting in a list of the top five easiest and fastest ways to improve your trumpet playing. |
OK, now I want to know your other three 
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NikolaTomic
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my other three would be selected from the following, but since I can't figure out which ones are unimportant for me, I'll list five more from easiest to most difficult to accomplish quickly:
Listen to exceptional trumpet playing live and on record every single day.
Increase nightly sleep and daily water intake.
Practice soft breath attacks with immediate resonant sound in all registers.
Practice pitch bending with control a little bit every day, especially between the bottom of the staff and high C.
Reduce stress and anxiety and cultivate a quiet mind.
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Nikola Tomić
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ayryq
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Nikola, and also thank you for posting your thoughts (on various topics) on your website. I wish I could find a teacher near me with such clarity of purpose and philosophy as you have in your studio. If you express yourself as well in person as you do in writing, I envy your students.
Eric
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Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
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Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
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NikolaTomic
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Eric. That is very kind of you. Having to come up with a list like that has made me curious...If you had to make a list of five things that have been most helpful to you trumpetwise, what would they be?
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Trompette111
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Nikola you have such great ideas, I enjoy them very much and try to incorporate them into my routine! |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Breathing Exercises |
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This isn't to say that Bud's material on breathing isn't in the link mentioned but I just didn't see it. Instead I found something about the "Valsavia maneuver" by Frank Campos which I completely disagreed with. Maybe that's just me because I disagree with so much of conventional thinking anyway.
Campos described the "biggest problem" in brass playing to be the "Valsavia maneuver". Or "Valsavia reflex". Which he basically described as meaning "closing the throat".
Now if "closing the throat" truly is the biggest problem, then why didn't Campos just say "closing the throat" in the first place?. You know instead of finding some obscure latin term used only by people with degrees in medicine? Oh wait! I get it. He wants us to think he's really smart because he uses phrases written in Latin. As if turning to pages in his thesaurus somehow brings credibility to his words. Or maybe he wants us to think he's got a medical degree?
Don't get urself started Lionel...
However I still don't think that "closing the throat" is a major problem. Instead I believe it to be a much repeated phrase. Similar to "every beginner should buy a Bach 7C mouthpiece"*. We repeat these phrases. Have heard them for probably over a hundred years. Yet no one has actually dug into them to see if they have any merit.
Or if we do see someone take these concepts apart and actually disagree with one or both? OMG! I pray for the poor fellow who after engaging in critical thinking does then present his results before a wide audience who is used to hearing and repeating conventional thinking. He'll be flamed and attacked every time! So powerful is conventional thinking that it's concepts in brass playing have become veritable sacred cows.
But I'll do it anyway. As for the "closing of the throat"? I think that the true underlying problem here is
Timidity, that and
Not putting enough air behind the horn.
To my mind the "closed throat" concept appears to evaporate soon after applying critical thinking. Which I'll call 'C/T". In C/T we ask questions. Maybe sometimes many questions. Sparing us the whole litany of them the one which finally smashes the Closed Throat to bits is this,
"What would a person trying to blow a solid G top of the staff actually SOUND LIKE if he really was closing his throat"? This is a great question because it automatically defines the condition present.
If someone were to keep his throat closed while also trying to blow a loud note like say a G top of the staff? The turbulence created by his glottis resisting the movement of air into the mouth and horn would create a very noticeable and disturbing noise. Kinda like gargling but worse. Maybe approaching the sound of him trying to collect a lot of phlegm in preparation to spit. If this ugly tone isn't present?
Then the kid isn't closing his throat!
This is an absolute premise and can not be refuted. Regardless? People will certainly try! Seen it myself plenty of times before. So powerful is the influence of early training resulting in conventional thinking. That we lose all of our sensibilities. If someone tries to challenge the above thought? All that I need do to make him look ridiculous is ask him to pick up his trumpet and execute a G top of the staff or any note really and then direct him to close his throat to stop the tone. If the presence if that gargling notes results? He has proved my point. If the tone disappears without the sound? Then he has just reduced the force of air in his lungs. Either intentionally oxr more likely without noticing it. More likely than not however?
He'll just refuse to undertake my suggested experiment in the first place. That and throw me a harsh glare or two. He may just swear at me. Lol...
Sacred cow as mentioned. And yet the concept of the "closed throat" matter probably isn't a major delinquency in teaching methods. Simply because since the closed throat doesn't exist? It can't possibly harm anyone. It's only an apparition. A friendly ghost that can't hurt anyone .
However the real problem which the "closed throat" concept was covering up is the failure to put enough air behind the horn. And it is this lack of emphasis on the matter which makes the fictional "closed throat" matter a detriment. So I think. Because while our poor kid is being instructed to
"Keep your throat open"?
He's turning his attention inward. That and not playing aggressively. Or outwardly. It takes an extrovert to blow the trumpet well. Telling a kid to concentrate on an inward matter reinforces an introverted personality. At least while he's playing the trumpet that is. I've seen more successes by brass instrument teachers who simply direct their kids to,
"Play with Guts"! Or, "Play Aggressively"!
This should easily cure the problem that the "closed throat" activists set out to fix in the first place. But as I said? Don't expect much support by using logic. Nor certainly any sympathy! Humans are fragile creatures of habit. We will stick to our old ideas until we die. It's just the way we are.
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Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).
Last edited by Lionel on Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kehaulani
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Pardon me sir. Can you tell me what time it is?
Passer-by: Sure. No problem.
First make a sketch of what kind of watch you want. Note all of the ideas on a piece of paper.
Then begin with the design of the watch. Sometimes you can start with the watch case, sometimes with the movement, but mostly do it all together. To make the design of a movement is a full time job. It takes several months from the first line to the last drawing of every part. Draw every part before making it. And leave no doubt to the size or how to make the part.
Each part of the watch is calculated, simulated and verified several times. Then when every drawing is ready, begin to produce the watch parts for the first prototype. At this time check out with which machine or tool is the best way to make the part. Often you’ll need to build first the machine or a special tooling to make just one part.
Once the machine is adjusted, make your parts. But it is a big error to make too many parts at one time. Why? It’s very simple, if you see, when you are working on the prototype it often comes to pass that a change must be made to a part so it will function better. If you have X number of parts in stock, well, you may be tempted to leave the functional, but inferior part as is. But if your stock is nearly empty it is much easier to re-begin to make the part. And, this is, once again, a reason why you don’t work with on stock parts; it is too easy to not make it better.
Making from scratch also means to begin just from bars and plates of metal. So when you make, for example, a pinion, you begin with a bar of 4mm “Sandvik 20AP” steel. If you want to make a plate or a bridge, use a disk of brass or German silver. It takes a lot of work to make a perfect part from scratch.
To ensure the precision of every part, use precise machines like a Hauser Jig-borer, 2 Schaublin lathes, a 4-axis CNC-mill and high precision control devices like the Hauser optical comparator. These and many more machines give you the possibility to make all needed parts for your watches, but also complicated parts like beveled gears.
Once the prototype is really OK, you begin to make the real one. More to follow.
Oh. What? Oh. It’s 10:42.
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area51recording
Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 480
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | Pardon me sir. Can you tell me what time it is?
Passer-by: Sure. No problem.
First make a sketch of what kind of watch you want. Note all of the ideas on a piece of paper.
Then begin with the design of the watch. Sometimes you can start with the watch case, sometimes with the movement, but mostly do it all together. To make the design of a movement is a full time job. It takes several months from the first line to the last drawing of every part. Draw every part before making it. And leave no doubt to the size or how to make the part.
Each part of the watch is calculated, simulated and verified several times. Then when every drawing is ready, begin to produce the watch parts for the first prototype. At this time check out with which machine or tool is the best way to make the part. Often you’ll need to build first the machine or a special tooling to make just one part.
Once the machine is adjusted, make your parts. But it is a big error to make too many parts at one time. Why? It’s very simple, if you see, when you are working on the prototype it often comes to pass that a change must be made to a part so it will function better. If you have X number of parts in stock, well, you may be tempted to leave the functional, but inferior part as is. But if your stock is nearly empty it is much easier to re-begin to make the part. And, this is, once again, a reason why you don’t work with on stock parts; it is too easy to not make it better.
Making from scratch also means to begin just from bars and plates of metal. So when you make, for example, a pinion, you begin with a bar of 4mm “Sandvik 20AP” steel. If you want to make a plate or a bridge, use a disk of brass or German silver. It takes a lot of work to make a perfect part from scratch.
To ensure the precision of every part, use precise machines like a Hauser Jig-borer, 2 Schaublin lathes, a 4-axis CNC-mill and high precision control devices like the Hauser optical comparator. These and many more machines give you the possibility to make all needed parts for your watches, but also complicated parts like beveled gears.
Once the prototype is really OK, you begin to make the real one. More to follow.
Oh. What? Oh. It’s 10:42.
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Speaking of time, this post makes me realize that I REALLY need to work on my time management skills |
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Dr. Manhattan
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Joined: 23 Jul 2016
Posts: 102
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: Bud Brisbois breathing excercise |
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"........Reduce stress and anxiety and cultivate a quiet mind."
- Nikola Tomic
This!!!!
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Several Trumpets and Flugelhorns!
Trying to thin the small herd!! |
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boog
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Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Bud Brisbois breathing exercise |
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Last edited by boog on Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Breathing Exercises |
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| Lionel wrote: |
This isn't to say that Bud's material on breathing isn't in the link mentioned but I just didn't see it. Instead I found something about the "Valsavia maneuver" by Frank Campos which I completely disagreed with. Maybe that's just me because I disagree with so much of conventional thinking anyway.
Campos described the "biggest problem" in brass playing to be the "Valsavia maneuver". Or "Valsavia reflex". Which he basically described as meaning "closing the throat".
Now if "closing the throat" truly is the biggest problem, then why didn't Campos just say "closing the throat" in the first place?. You know instead of finding some obscure latin term used only by people with degrees in medicine? Oh wait! I get it. He wants us to think he's really smart because he uses phrases written in Latin. As if turning to pages in his thesaurus somehow brings credibility to his words. Or maybe he wants us to think he's got a medical degree?
Don't get urself started Lionel...
However I still don't think that "closing the throat" is a major problem. Instead I believe it to be a much repeated phrase. Similar to "every beginner should buy a Bach 7C mouthpiece"*. We repeat these phrases. Have heard them for probably over a hundred years. Yet no one has actually dug into them to see if they have any merit.
Or if we do see someone take these concepts apart and actually disagree with one or both? OMG! I pray for the poor fellow who after engaging in critical thinking does then present his results before a wide audience who is used to hearing and repeating conventional thinking. He'll be flamed and attacked every time! So powerful is conventional thinking that it's concepts in brass playing have become veritable sacred cows.
But I'll do it anyway. As for the "closing of the throat"? I think that the true underlying problem here is
Timidity, that and
Not putting enough air behind the horn.
To my mind the "closed throat" concept appears to evaporate soon after applying critical thinking. Which I'll call 'C/T". In C/T we ask questions. Maybe sometimes many questions. Sparing us the whole litany of them the one which finally smashes the Closed Throat to bits is this,
"What would a person trying to blow a solid G top of the staff actually SOUND LIKE if he really was closing his throat"? This is a great question because it automatically defines the condition present.
If someone were to keep his throat closed while also trying to blow a loud note like say a G top of the staff? The turbulence created by his glottis resisting the movement of air into the mouth and horn would create a very noticeable and disturbing noise. Kinda like gargling but worse. Maybe approaching the sound of him trying to collect a lot of phlegm in preparation to spit. If this ugly tone isn't present?
Then the kid isn't closing his throat!
This is an absolute premise and can not be refuted. Regardless? People will certainly try! Seen it myself plenty of times before. So powerful is the influence of early training resulting in conventional thinking. That we lose all of our sensibilities. If someone tries to challenge the above thought? All that I need do to make him look ridiculous is ask him to pick up his trumpet and execute a G top of the staff or any note really and then direct him to close his throat to stop the tone. If the presence if that gargling notes results? He has proved my point. If the tone disappears without the sound? Then he has just reduced the force of air in his lungs. Either intentionally oxr more likely without noticing it. More likely than not however?
He'll just refuse to undertake my suggested experiment in the first place. That and throw me a harsh glare or two. He may just swear at me. Lol...
Sacred cow as mentioned. And yet the concept of the "closed throat" matter probably isn't a major delinquency in teaching methods. Simply because since the closed throat doesn't exist? It can't possibly harm anyone. It's only an apparition. A friendly ghost that can't hurt anyone .
However the real problem which the "closed throat" concept was covering up is the failure to put enough air behind the horn. And it is this lack of emphasis on the matter which makes the fictional "closed throat" matter a detriment. So I think. Because while our poor kid is being instructed to
"Keep your throat open"?
He's turning his attention inward. That and not playing aggressively. Or outwardly. It takes an extrovert to blow the trumpet well. Telling a kid to concentrate on an inward matter reinforces an introverted personality. At least while he's playing the trumpet that is. I've seen more successes by brass instrument teachers who simply direct their kids to,
"Play with Guts"! Or, "Play Aggressively"!
This should easily cure the problem that the "closed throat" activists set out to fix in the first place. But as I said? Don't expect much support by using logic. Nor certainly any sympathy! Humans are fragile creatures of habit. We will stick to our old ideas until we die. It's just the way we are. |
You and I reached different impressions and conclusions about this paper, I took it all to mean that there is a natural reflex or function which adds tension to your play when attempting demanding volume or range changes and attempted to give some ways to work thru it based on Buds beliefs, methods. From your lengthy post I wasn’t sure you and I got the same takeaways. Do you not agree we all need to eliminate tension in any way possible or the conclusions. Do you not think this is a natural and reflexive occurrence? Or do you think this reflex can be overcome by blowing harder and being more aggressive with attack? I thought it to have some good points, and I’m not sure Valsalva is just closing your throat, there might be a little more to it. I have found the suggestions regard Bud to help but I’m still trying to nail a hi a so I can’t say the little I’ve tried made me a screamer. I haven’t done the exercise with the shirt off in front of the mirror but I do use the panting exercise to very good benefit so far. I’m curious what you felt strong disagreement with?
Rod |
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Derek Reaban
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 4221
Location: Tempe, Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If someone were to keep his throat closed while also trying to blow a loud note like say a G top of the staff? The turbulence created by his glottis resisting the movement of air into the mouth and horn would create a very noticeable and disturbing noise. Kinda like gargling but worse. Maybe approaching the sound of him trying to collect a lot of phlegm in preparation to spit. If this ugly tone isn't present?
Then the kid isn't closing his throat! |
Wow!
Grunting while Playing
There’s a great book called “Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind” by Brian Fredericksen. I highly recommend it!
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Derek Reaban wrote: | | Quote: | If someone were to keep his throat closed while also trying to blow a loud note like say a G top of the staff? The turbulence created by his glottis resisting the movement of air into the mouth and horn would create a very noticeable and disturbing noise. Kinda like gargling but worse. Maybe approaching the sound of him trying to collect a lot of phlegm in preparation to spit. If this ugly tone isn't present?
Then the kid isn't closing his throat! |
Wow!
Grunting while Playing
There’s a great book called “Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind” by Brian Fredericksen. I highly recommend it! |
Thanks I had asked about grunting in an earlier post, ill read it. He was the tuba player with only one lung?
Rod |
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Derek Reaban
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 4221
Location: Tempe, Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Hi Rod,
If you're interested in a really good read, get of copy of the Arnold Jacobs book. He was in the Chicago Symphony for years and dealt with lung surgery (leading to his strong interest in the breathing mechanism, applying critical thinking to how this applies to brass and wind players, and sharing this great information with his students).
Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind, by Brian Fredericksen
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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gdghorn
Regular Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Breathing Exercises |
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Great article. |
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