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25 second double G challenge...


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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject: 25 second double G challenge... Reply with quote

Has anyone else seen this?

Amazing feats and both of them seem to have a sense of humour!

Hoffman definitely won the time but, for me, Brain had the sound.

Seemingly all done in good fun and I think its great to see stuff like this on Youtube! Very interested to see if other players get involved, it seems like something Jens Lindemann would dig.

Original video (Trumpet Brain):

https://youtu.be/1nPvs7XsdMA

Réponse video (Jordan Hoffman):

https://youtu.be/ddl9YuyyiL8

All the best
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there similar antics for any other instruments? I haven’t heard of them, but...maybe...it’s not just us trumpet players who do stuff like this......?

Last edited by bike&ed on Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NikolaTomic
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could this be the start of a 25 page challenge...25 pages discussing whether "double" is appropriate in the context of this particular G?
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NikolaTomic wrote:
Could this be the start of a 25 page challenge...25 pages discussing whether "double" is appropriate in the context of this particular G?


I have to say; I think it is a fairly logical use of the term 'double'. I'm fairly sure most people would think of the pitch they played as 'double G'.

Realistically, calling it 'high G' just causes confusion with the octave below, and a lot of people would assume the players were talking about the G at the top of the stave.

Anyone who uses 'double G' to describe the G the octave above the one played, is there really a point to that? That 'triple' G never has a musical function and is nothing more than a squealy pitch. So I personally have never understood why, logically, there is confusion over this.

Whether you agree or not; has anyone ever really misinterpreted the terms:
-Low G for G below the stave
-Middle G for second line G
-High G for top of the stave
-Double G for the G with 4 ledger lines?

All the best
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area51recording
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are BOTH those guys employing tongue arch do you think?
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Betelgeuse215
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why stop at 25 seconds? 1 minute? 1 hour? A full 24 hours?!
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lot of hi school players are happy to hear that. In 1965 I knew those 2 notes weren’t dbls.🤪🎺
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boog
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, let's see if these 2 young men can do this after playing the lead chart of Buddy Rich's "Nutville" all the way through, on the last hour of a 3 hour set! (no, I would not wish that on anyone) ...and, hold the fermata out that long...

I have a feeling that both of these have a lot of years of good playing in front of them, that is, if they don't pop a blood vessel! I am impressed that either one of them did not faint!

It may be an urban legend, but I seem to remember a story of Bill Chase getting fired from Maynard's band for fainting during a gig...
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are not nice sounding notes. I'll admit it is better sounding that the farty sounds that someone is making that was voted one of the best new players in the jazz category. Or the person that was voted as pushing boundaries in excellence by playing nonsense atonal notes with a bass backing. But still, not something I would want to listen to. Sorry.
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Those are not nice sounding notes. I'll admit it is better sounding that the farty sounds that someone is making that was voted one of the best new players in the jazz category. Or the person that was voted as pushing boundaries in excellence by playing nonsense atonal notes with a bass backing. But still, not something I would want to listen to. Sorry.


Whilst I entirely agree there isn't anything remotely musical about this; one of the things that I liked about the videos was that neither were pretending to be. The description on the first video sums it up nicely, and I don't think either of them were making any claims about producing a musical result.

Personally I did actually think the first video was a pretty great sound, it was more or less totally stable (it did go a tiny bit sharp near the end) and had a pretty full quality to it, the second one admittedly less so.

I only defend these players because, as I have said, it seemed something that was done in good fun and neither of them were playing under any musical pretences.

All the best
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not sure that any isolated single note sustained for 25 seconds is "musical" beyond a basic elementary level I do think that both examples here produced a decent sound. These were real notes, not squeaks.
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maynard-46
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: 25 second double G challenge... Reply with quote

While I'm not criticizing either of these players I simply couldn't listen to the 2nd guy thru the 25 seconds of the vid. His "G" was SO sharp when layered over the background music my ears started throbbing!!! Maybe they should dump the music since there's no valid reason for it and just put a metronome click...or something...or nothing...in the background???

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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
That 'triple' G never has a musical function and is nothing more than a squealy pitch. So I personally have never understood why, logically, there is confusion over this.


Triple-G Squealy Pitch??????????

If I were to be able to perform those, what you call, "squealy triple-G pitches", I wouldn't be sitting here typing, but instead I would be making money performing those "squealy triple-G pitches".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKy3i1Gf_iY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVqa0hhfE1w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W56FY94GsSs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-BQT-6S3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v42j7xwOaIw


Last edited by Harry Hilgers on Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bike&ed wrote:
Are there similar antics for any other instruments? I haven’t heard of them, but...maybe...it’s not just us trumpet players who do stuff like this......?


I would hate to think it’s just us trumpet players, but I think it might be.🙄

No disrespect intended to guys who have great upper registers (I don’t, I top out at that same G), but this seems kinda high school to me.

Regarding what to call that pitch, IMO, it’s just fourth ledger line G.

The truth is, the average non musician has no idea how difficult it is to play trumpet in that register. I work with a tenor sax guy who frequently gets up in double C territory, it sometimes does generate some crowd excitement, but nothing major, and non musicians have no clue how much more difficult that is on trumpet than sax. WE sometimes get excited about trumpet “screamers”, the average person? “Meh.”

Brad
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:

The truth is, the average non musician has no idea how difficult it is to play trumpet in that register. I work with a tenor sax guy who frequently gets up in double C territory, it sometimes does generate some crowd excitement, but nothing major, and non musicians have no clue how much more difficult that is on trumpet than sax. WE sometimes get excited about trumpet “screamers”, the average person? “Meh.”

Brad


In fairness, a video described as 'Trumpet Challenge' probably isn't aimed at 'the average non-musician'.

One question that I have been wondering is; how many people on here reckon (or know) they could hold a decent G for 25 seconds?

Edit: I've seen a video knocking around of Jens doing it, so he's clearly one who can!
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NikolaTomic
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Hilgers wrote:
NikolaTomic wrote:
That 'triple' G never has a musical function and is nothing more than a squealy pitch. So I personally have never understood why, logically, there is confusion over this.


Triple-G Squealy Pitch??????????

If I were to be able to perform those, what you call, "squealy triple-G pitches", I wouldn't be sitting here typing, but instead I would be making money performing those "squealy triple-G pitches".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKy3i1Gf_iY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVqa0hhfE1w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W56FY94GsSs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-BQT-6S3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v42j7xwOaIw


I did not, in fact, write the quote you are attributing to me.

As far as nomenclature goes, I don't really care what someone calls a given pitch as long as it makes sense to them. I was attempting a joke. I'm pretty sure there have been at least a couple of threads of that nature here over the years.

Pretty or not, I think a challenge like this is a great way to motivate growth and honest self assessment. It's almost like having a network of practice buddies all around the globe.
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Nos Mo King
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Carmichael and his timed double high c...turn your sound down before listening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxZT6KbJb4Q



Kind of fun...

Best,

RC
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NikolaTomic wrote:
I did not, in fact, write the quote you are attributing to me.


Whoops I fixed it. Got mixed up with all them
Quote:
quotes


So you have my sincere apology

Cheers,
Harry.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second fellow definitely had a better tone. However the real question I have for either man is,

"Can you get a big sound on not only the G but all the notes below it"?

In real music I know of only one recorded application of a G held that long and it was done in the studio. So we don't know if it was overdubbed in later or not. Not that it matters of course as the studio is the studio. Where the sound engineer is boss and he couldn't care less about how many takes or overdubs are necessary. The piece I have in mind is from the "Chase" album of 1971. In the song "Handbags & Gladrags". Also Bill does more than hold the note. He gets a fine shake on the last eight bars. It is a 16 bar phrase in length total.

I just now timed it. And Bill was essentially holding it for 37 seconds on the recording. Although no doubt that he took a few breaths during the phrase. As he was clearly employing a really big sound. No squeaks like in the two examples shown in the O/P.

This may surprise a few people here but it's not so hard to rig a set of chops to squeak a high G. If you know what you're doing that is. Roy Stevens actually required all of his beginning students to play not only the high G but to learn notes up to triple C and maybe even above that too. Granted not all of them could do it. Some learned it right away. Others took longer and a number of them couldn't pull it off at all.

The interesting part of Roy's method was that he proved that a great number of just beginning students could learn extreme range right from the very get go. On their first day blowing the horn! In my life I have continued working with Roy's embouchure model. Not only to learn his system myself but to figure out why it failed some people. And just during the past year I actually figured it out.

The problem seems to be that some trumpet players can not employ the forward jaw position while playing the trumpet. And the reason for that seems to be that when throwing out their jaw the trumpet player often shifts the spot on his lower lip where the softer upper lip "interfaces" with it. If where the two intersect the texture of his lower lip is similarly as soft as his upper? He ought to be able to start squeaking those high G's and double C's. Fairly easily too. And this is really cool. Esp for the beginner because he knows in advance that he'll eventually conquer the complete range of the instrument.

However if in the more forward jaw position the lower lip texture is stiff where it meets the upper? I have found that this causes the Stevens System to fail. The trick then at this point is to adopt a position for the lower that is soft. Pooching out the gums slightly did the trick for me.

This works! It really does. And it is a model which I believe that every trumpet player could use. With some variances of course.
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:
The second fellow definitely had a better tone. However the real question I have for either man is,

"Can you get a big sound on not only the G but all the notes below it"?


I don't know either of these guys at all, so don't feel a need to defend them per se, but I think its only fair to point out that if you took some time to watch the other videos on both channels you would see that both players can clearly produce a good sound, and 'not only the G'.

Your reference to that Bill Chase recording is a bit out of place- the whole point of this so-called 'Challenge' was to play a constant G for 25 (+) seconds. I have no doubt both players could clearly have played those notes for much longer if they were allowed to breathe...

Could you complete this challenge Lionel? You seem pretty quick to talk down about both these kids as if you're abilities are superior?

All the best
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