CSO Musicians Reject Management offer.....

alexwill

Summary for our European friends....Pension is the main issue, but they aren't together on salaries either.

The musicians have been on strike since March 11.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/cso-chicago-symphony-orchestra-musicians-strike-contract-negotiations/

MrClean · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:03 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I heard this. Could be a long road for the good folks of the CSO.
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bean_counter · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:07 am Post subject:

Local Chicago radio news at the top of the hour said the latest management offer was rejected
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alexwill · Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:11 am Post subject:

This article will probably be blocked for you, but it is short and says there was a meeting on Tuesday (4/16), and there is no progress to report.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/reich/ct-ent-cso-negotiations-0417-story.html

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:47 am Post subject:

Musicians offered a counter, management rejected it and stuck to their last offer. No new talks scheduled at this time.
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blasticore · Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject:

Does anyone know what the offers included (providing it's public knowledge)? I feel like this might have been touched-on in the recent issue of the AFM monthly magazine, but for the life of me, I don't remember any numbers.

Is it a dispute about pay raises, or the the CSO being asked to take a pay cut or lose benefits?
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Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:16 am Post subject:

Here's the musicians' website:

http://www.chicagosymphonymusicians.com

There are some more details there about the concessions management is insisting on. The main disagreement seems to be over management's proposal to convert the CSO pension (which is separate from the AFM pension fund) to a defined-contribution plan.
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HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

I continue to think that the musicians have a pretty difficult challenge because the $300,000,000 endowment gives management a lot of resiliency. Management can hold out for a long, long time if not forever.

I also think that the musicians don't really have much public sympathy because their compensation is already higher than the compensation being received by about 95% of the public. Further, I doubt that very many, if any, major sponsors are sympathetic to the musicians because rising costs mean donations have to be proportionately higher to keep up and donors have limits they like to stay within.

In terms of public relations it's a very complex mix of things for both sides because there are so many interests with so much potential for conflict. It's my impression that both sides are continuing to "spin" their positions to the public to cast the opposing side as the "bad guy," which, in my view, encourages digging in as opposed to compromise.

Eventually this will work itself out but it could take a long time since neither side seems willing to budge.
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Athos · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:11 am Post subject:

The orchestra's endowment cuts both ways. It's pretty tough for management to say they can't afford certain things when they're sitting on a large endowment. The CSOA saves lots of money by having a work stoppage, but at the cost of not fulfilling its mission of presenting great music by the orchestra they themselves have touted as "World's Best."

gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

Having a large endowment is good for both sides. Good for the board because they have a large endowment. Good for the musicians because there is a large endowment.

But thinking a large endowment somehow gives management flexibility shows a lack of knowledge regarding collective bargaining in the non-profit sector.

Most endowments have many restrictions. Restricted funds are for such things as education, community out-reach, and all kinds of stuff. Unrestricted funds can be used for operating expenses but I fail to see how these unrestricted funds give management flexibility.

They are there to manage the orchestra. There is no orchestra. If they are all in there drawing a salary from unrestricted funds then for what are they being paid?

Hang in there CSO musicians!!
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HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

I really do not want to argue with you. The CSO business entity may think it can exist without this group of orchestra musicians but I doubt it. I get the feeling you think they think they can. I am confident this is not the strategy.

Happy Easter & Passover to all.

Gordon Stump
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mdarnton · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject:

One might be able to run an organization with no purpose until the endowment runs out, yes, but if your objective is actually seat an orchestra, you had probably do it before all the private donors (and there is quite a long list of them in the CSO program) run out of patience and wander off elsewhere with their money. I suspect they aren't willing to continue to pay administrators for the process of proving they can't run an orchestra.

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject:

I'd guess that for every player position in the CSO, there are 100 qualified people from the local area who would come to 'open auditions'.

In our current economy and 'pension structure', workers demanding a 'defined benefits retirement package' is a long-shot.

Jay
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HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to point out some realities. By and large the price of things is not set by the seller or the buyer. The price of things is set by the market as a whole. If the price is excessively high the market doesn't buy. If the price is excessively low the market buys all it can absorb. Things ultimately balance out. That's how the market works.

The same holds true for employees. If they can go elsewhere and be paid more for their services then they're currently being paid then they're currently being paid less than market value. If they can't go elsewhere and be paid more for their services then they're currently being paid then they're currently being paid market value or more. That's just basic economics.

In essence, a strike tests how closely the seller's needs and benefits and the buyer's needs and benefits match up in the market. By "market" I mean the real market, the market in which exchanges are happening on a current basis. I don't mean a theoretical market of what could be under hypothetical circumstances.

A friend of mine (Murray) was in the furniture business. A lady came to see him looking for a certain chair. Murray had a sufficient quantity of those chairs in stock. When the lady inquired about the price Murray said, "They're $100 each." The lady replied, "The furniture store down the street told me they were $90 each." Murray replied, "Why didn't you buy them from the store down the street?" The lady replied, "Because they didn't have any and couldn't get them." Murray replied, "Lady, if I didn't have them and couldn't get them they'd be $80 each."

I don't know what alternate employment opportunities exist for the CSO musicians. I suspect the alternate opportunities vary a lot from musician to musician. The existence of favorable real and immediate alternate opportunities strengthens the position of the musicians. The lack of favorable real and immediate alternate opportunities strengthens the position of management. That's also just basic economics.

Of course, there are other factors as well, but one thing is certain: The CSO labor dispute will ultimately be settled at market price. No more. No less.
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astadler · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject:

What kind of players do you think would actually cross the picket line and show up to that audition if they held one? They’d be lucky to have any “qualified people,” let alone 100 for each position. Management does not have any realistic way to replace the musicians without a tremendous loss in quality across the board. And really it would never happen, so it’s not worth any amount of discussion.

mdarnton · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:22 pm Post subject:

The Detroit Symphony went through this in 2010. When they came back, after six months, they'd lost 20 of their 81 players. Starting to give up, musicians looked for, and found, other jobs. An orchestra like Chicago's isn't defined by the number of shoes on the stage, but the Who's Who of the feet in those shoes, their collective experience and the resulting culture. You could put 100 other people on the stage, but everyone would know that it wasn't the CSO.

MrClean · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject:

Athos · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:53 pm Post subject:

Athos · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:04 pm Post subject: