New Trumpets with the most Feedback

uglylips · Last edited by uglylips on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:13 pm; edited 11 times in total

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(NOTE: When I initially wrote this post I was thinking about new trumpets and feedback in an amplified setting. I think almost all the horns I listed or that have been added to this discussion are excellent lead horns. These are brighter sounding trumpets and I'm trying to learn more about their feedback characteristics.

Sound reflectors, monitors, microphones, IEM equipment, etc. are also being discussed. I welcome this exchange of ideas as any useful information that relates to feedback in general is very helpful.)
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I'm considering the purchase of a new trumpet to use when I play with loud amplified instruments, i.e. rock or funk bands, etc. I don't want to go the used or vintage route with this one.

I'm currently using my raw brass Bach 43 which works good, but I could still use more feedback. I'm getting good feedback now, especially when I use a sound back on my mic stand. I'm thinking though I'd like more feedback if possible and feedback is my highest priority for this new trumpet.

I'm considering the following trumpets. Please respond if you have used these trumpets in an amplified setting and can speak to the level of feedback in comparison with some of the other horns. There's no way I'll be able to try all of these on the gig and I want to narrow the field down.

Bach Commercial Standard/Lightweight (5" Bell)
B&S Exquisite EXB (Malcolm McNabb, M bore .444)
Shires Destino III (M bore .454)
Shires CVLA-M (M bore .454)
Stomvi VR II Standard/Lightweight (5.25" Big Bell, polybore)
Schilke B6BL (5" Bell, M step bore .450)
Schilke S43HDL (M step bore .450)
Schilke S43HDL-F (5" Bell, M step bore .450)
Blackburn Commercial
Blackburn Jericho Standard/Lightweight
Yamaha YTR-8310Z II (Latest Bobby Shew, 5" Bell, M step bore .445)
Calicchio 1s/2 or 1s/7 or 1s/9 (M bore .453, will leadpipe change feedback?)
Charley Davis 1s/2 or 1s/7 or 1s/9 or CD (M bore .453)
Scodwell Standard Las Vegas

Note: Some of the trumpets on this list are available in larger bore sizes. I listed the medium bore sizes only because this is my preference.

It probably won't be easy to figure this out. But yeah, I want the most feedback possible! Please feel free to comment and suggest other new horns that you think I should consider.

StricklandMusic · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:19 am Post subject:

I can definitely understand the frustration of playing together with instruments that have volume knobs. Half my professional playing is in high energy groups with electronic amplified instruments.

From my personal experiences, playing a trumpet with a larger bell helps me get quicker feed back when in these situations. I currently play a Van Laar B3 which has a 130mm or roughly 5 1/4" bell. It's lighter weight compared to Hub's other trumpets with larger sized bells. I would also recommend trying his OIRAM IV the lightest in the OIRAM series.

Also, not necessarily answering the question of what trumpet to try but if you like your current horn; have you considered using in ear monitors? For me they make a huge difference.

Hope this helps and good luck!
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uglylips · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:58 am Post subject:

Thanks, I'll have to consider the Van Laar. I don't know much about these trumpets.

An in ear monitor could change everything. Is it possible to get a feed direct from your mic without the sound guy changing the mix or turning your mic off?

I talked to Mike at Schilke and he suggested the B6B. He explained that the bell bead on the B series is unsoldered as opposed to soldered on the S series and that an unsoldered bead will provide more feedback.

jcoffey · Regular Member Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 78

The Stomvi VRII (either lightweight or big bell) is right up your alley. I would also consider the S3.
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Bb- Shires AZ, Bach 180S37
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ayryq · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject:

wiemelen · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject:

Edwards X-13 maybe?
Still a rare instrument around here, but from what I've heard on Youtube it might suit your needs.
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uglylips · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject:

Not sure if a larger bell diameter necessarily correlates with more feedback to the player. Some say yes others say no. Here's a thread from a post that indicates 4 5/8" bell diameter is optimal for feedback.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=939459

Also thread on bell bead and feedback:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94725&highlight=

And the cutting lead horns thread:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=126238&highlight=cutting+lead+horns[/url]

uglylips · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject:

Speed · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject:

I've used custom made IEMS from Ultimate Ears. They are pricey, but they sound great, and they are comfortable.

My experience is that some of the quality off-the-shelf IEMs sound fine. I've used some Shures and I like them. Frankly, I didn't notice a ton of difference in the SOUND of the Shure off-the-shelf ones and the Ultimate Ears custom ones. The difference is how good the Ultimate Ears IEMs FEEL.

Custom IEMs start with a trip to an audiologist who will make a mold of your ears. You send that mold to the IEM manufacturer. When you receive the IEMs, they fit your ears perfectly, assuming the audiologist knows what they are doing. One of my bandmates sent his molds off the third time before the manufacturer accepted them. My memory is that the audiologist didn't make the molds deep enough. I recall that Ultimate Ears required that the molds go past the first bend in the ear canal.

Take care,
Marc Speed

kehaulani · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject:

Has this been overlooked, or did I miss it? What's wrong with using amplification and monitors?
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Henson813p · New Member Joined: 14 Aug 2018 Posts: 9

Howdy,

So I have used a lightweight 43, standard 43, lightweight 72, and standard 72 in various settings like you describe over the years and always went back to the lightweight 72 at least in the realm of Bach.

Calicchio 1s/2 I used for a year but didn't really sit well with how I wanted to sound and didn't get a good feedback.

Can't speak too much about the Schilkes you listed but I used an S32 for a good while which was a FUN horn. Worked really well in a rock setting, very bright, very cutting, could hear myself pretty well.

I also briefly tried the new Bach Commcercial (LT190L1B) as a trial period last year. Was OK but honestly felt a little stuffy right above the staff. I probably needed more time with it I guess. Feedback was just like any other Bach I have played.

Another really cool horn I got to try out in California was the Kanstul 1601. This was a contender when I was trying out horns for the longest time. Cool horn, light, very responsive, and great feedback back to my face.

I currently use a Warburton 335 if you wanted to add something new to the list. They have some killer horns. Been using it for a few months and I get great response and feedback if I am in a loud funk band and rock band.

If I could also suggest a Soundback?

http://www.soundback.com/Adjustable_2.0.php

This helps SO much if you are in a loud mic setting. Pop the mic in and you don't have to blow your freaking head off to be heard. The shield will get enough sound back to your ears.
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Yamaha 731

zaferis · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:01 am Post subject:

I'm not so sure that you haven't really combined 2 separtate issues. I agree that some instruments provide a little more feedback to the player vs. others; this is one of the things I do have experience with, specifically Yamaha's vs Bach But this is a long story - I just say that my experience has been that I get more accoustic feedback from the Bach's I play (have played) vs. the several Yamaha's I played in various USAF bands.

But I think the difference is slight enough that in a loud environment the difference will be negligable, and easily overcome with other applications - i.e. a sound back shield on or near your microphone.

Recently, I've purchased a clip-on mic. and found that in comparison to playing with one on a stand, I then can move around a bit, still give a consistent feed to the board, but find I can hear myself better. Possibly becasue I'm not pointing the bell at a mic that has nothing but the room behind it, vs. a little bit at stands, cabinets, and other things on stage that reflect my sound. + a much more comfortable, relaxed playing posture.

I will say that I love what the Bach Commercial trumpet does for me. The other awesome trumpets are Shires Destino III, and Blackburn's Commercial or Jericho. What I'll add is that one reason I went with the Bach (beyond my history of playing Bach's) was for the price of one of those I bought two new Bachs (the Commercial and a new AP190 picc.)

I'd suggest you find a trumpet that you love - sound, response, feel, etc.. then deal with the feedback thing separately.
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Manuel de los Campos · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:55 am Post subject:

2many5s · Regular Member Joined: 28 May 2014 Posts: 40

shofarguy · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:02 am Post subject:

Over the years, I have played trumpets with outstanding player feedback and also horns with next to no feedback. The funny thing is that some trumpets of the exact same model and year of manufacture came out very different in this aspect. Why? I have no idea.

The "how" is a little easier. Maybe. I have walked around a player while they were playing and I could identify a point where the sound seemed to emanate, a point of focus, if you will. If that point was inside the horn, close to the player, he heard a brilliant range of sound. If the point of focus was in front of the horn, the player heard much less and it usually sounded dark, meaning much fewer high frequencies got to the player. Most horns have a focus point inside the bell throat where the player hears a good representation of his sound and the timbre of the horn isn't affected; either by being too brilliant (outside the bell) or dark and muffled (inside the horn near the valves).

Then there are the anomalous instruments that defy all of the patterns. Take my beloved Benge 5X of years gone by. That horn produced a surround-sound presence that gave good accurate feedback and yet filled any size space with the exact same sound in all directions. I have no idea how or why, but it did. If you could find that particular instrument, I'd say snap it up!

But there is one more aspect of this puzzle. The mouthpiece. I have a collection of them, like many members here. Some, I bought in sets of three to experiment with bore sizes. Out of one of these sets, there was one CG3 that caused whatever trumpet I put it in to project feedback much better than the other two "matched" pieces. How? Why? Who can say!

You just have to look until you find what you want and then buy it.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper

There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

uglylips · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject:

mm55 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412

uglylips · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:09 am Post subject:

Manuel de los Campos · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:44 am Post subject:

giakara · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject:

I have notice that I get the best feedback from horns with French bead bell , that is my feel and I wonder if you guys have a similar experience.

Regards
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