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onlyson
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Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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Location: Bartlett, Illinois
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 Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Right now on reverb.com there is a Shure P4M and PSM400 combo for $350. This would solve all of your problems. I have used in ear monitors for 25 years. Leave one ear bud in, leave one ear bud out. Now you're mixed. If the whole band has them even better. Less stage monitors adding db's to the overall stage volume. Good luck.
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mm55
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Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Manuel de los Campos wrote: | | mm55 wrote: | | As a former sound engineer, I'd have to say that I hated it |
Maybe that is because you are a former live sound engineer? Over here in the Netherlands they like it a lot. No more feedback with monitors, no more trumpet in the other microphones. We trumpet players can play much softer since we finally hear ourselves. The musicians in front of us are happy as well: Soundback for president! |
OK, as long as you don't think it actually sounds like a real trumpet. Putting a hard reflective surface so close to a microphone is a recipe for a strangely colored frequency response (known to former sound engineers as comb filtering) and compromised directional control, but maybe only former sound engineers were properly trained in such things. It's clearly called out in textbooks, handbooks, and reference materials*, and was part of both my undergraduate training and on-the-job experience.
With all the agonizing over mouthpiece cup shape, bell flare, bell material, leadpipe shape, etc., it's surprising that a trumpet player wouldn't be able to hear what seem to be obvious discrepancies in tonal color.
Maybe that's why it's so frequently drowned in artificial reverb.
* E.g this from Shure's SM58 user guide: "Place microphones as far as possible from reflective surfaces." And "Do not cover any part of the microphone grille with your hand, as this will adversely affect microphone performance." which applies to a soundback or a notebandit or the like as well as to your hand.
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uglylips
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 777
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Henson813p wrote: | | I currently use a Warburton 335 if you wanted to add something new to the list. They have some killer horns. Been using it for a few months and I get great response and feedback if I am in a loud funk band and rock band. |
Thanks for the info Henson! I was looking at the Warburton horns online and the CF (Carl Fischer) model seemed like a good fit too. I like the idea of efficiency with the medium bore and this horn was designed with both an amplified setting, performing live with Billy Joel, and feedback in mind. Did you try the CF model? What did you think?
Do you know what type of valves are used in Warburton horns? I believe they outsource their valves and bells. Do you know who's making these? |
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hose
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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Location: Winter Garden, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Carrol in both cases.
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Henson813p
New Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| uglylips wrote: | | Henson813p wrote: | | I currently use a Warburton 335 if you wanted to add something new to the list. They have some killer horns. Been using it for a few months and I get great response and feedback if I am in a loud funk band and rock band. |
Thanks for the info Henson! I was looking at the Warburton horns online and the CF (Carl Fischer) model seemed like a good fit too. I like the idea of efficiency with the medium bore and this horn was designed with both an amplified setting, performing live with Billy Joel, and feedback in mind. Did you try the CF model? What did you think?
Do you know what type of valves are used in Warburton horns? I believe they outsource their valves and bells. Do you know who's making these? |
Sure thing! Yeah the CF Horn is actually a really cool horn but it just didn't blow the way I like. I got to try one after I bought the 335. Seemed a bit stuffy to me but not as bad as some stuffy medium bore Bachs I have tried. I am assuming it is the rounded slide...? I know Trent Austin now carries CF Horns which is hip and a great person to back up those horns.
I am loving bigger bell horns in general because I seemingly "get" more back to my ears but it also just helps with a sound. The Eric Miyashiro horn from Yamaha has a bigger bell and was fun to play as well! 335 is a lighter 5 inch that I loved the most out of everything I tried.
I think Carol brass does both bells and valves, leadpipes they make their own. The valves feel great to me, solid and smooth. Love the grippy edges - makes unscrewing them super easy!
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uglylips
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| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Henson813p wrote: | | I think Carol brass does both bells and valves, leadpipes they make their own. The valves feel great to me, solid and smooth. Love the grippy edges - makes unscrewing them super easy! |
Good info - thanks! Do you know what piston material is used in your Warburton valves? Monel, stainless, nickel-plated? |
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hose
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Location: Winter Garden, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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I tried all the Warburton combos four years ago when I bought my 435. I lived 30 minutes away then and had easy access. Had a lot of help in choosing as there is always "someone" at the shop passing through. About six months ago I had Terry make me a "square" tuning slide in addition to the original "round". It centers the sound more. At that time I also tried several versions of the CF horn they had in stock. None worked for me better than my 435. I wish I would've originally tried the #2 or #3 leadpipe instead of the #4 I have. My #4 seems a bit large. Although, KT told me the #4 extended venturi is a copy of an original Bach lead pipe. I thought Carol made the lead pipes, too? Maybe not.
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uglylips
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
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Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | I will say that I love what the Bach Commercial trumpet does for me. The other awesome trumpets are Shires Destino III, and Blackburn's Commercial or Jericho. What I'll add is that one reason I went with the Bach (beyond my history of playing Bach's) was for the price of one of those I bought two new Bachs (the Commercial and a new AP190 picc.) |
Thanks for the info. Can you tell me more about the Blackburn Commercial and Jericho? |
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uglylips
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Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Manuel de los Campos wrote: | | In the impressive list of horns you mentioned I messed just one: Getzen Eterna 900, a very effective axe, will solve your problem |
Are you talking about the 900 Eterna Classic listed on the Getzen website? I think this horn has a two piece bell and I'm wondering if a two piece bell gives you more feedback.
Isn't the 900 Eterna Classic the same horn as the 70's Eterna Doc Severinsen model? I've always liked the way these played. |
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uglylips
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
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Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | Over the years, I have played trumpets with outstanding player feedback and also horns with next to no feedback. The funny thing is that some trumpets of the exact same model and year of manufacture came out very different in this aspect. Why? I have no idea. |
Thanks for the good advice. I agree horns and mouthpieces that are exactly the same year and model vary in sound and response. I have no idea why either. In general, I'm trying to narrow down the field by most common and known characteristics. Then I will play test these to determine feedback, etc. and find the horn I like the best.
I may have to try a Benge 5X. I'm breaking my own rule about only new horns, but this maybe an exception worth pursuing. You and others have mentioned to me that this horn has exceptional feedback. I think they made these in ML .460 bore. I wouldn't want to go any larger. Do you know if these were ever made as M bore? |
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