View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
SaxoTrump Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 270 Location: Eastern Europe
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:09 am Post subject: Changing MP placement and its effects |
|
|
Being an amateur less than successful trumpet player I nevertheless managed to survive since I had found a sweet lips spot off center to the right. I played that way for quite awhile.
(I can't play in the middle due to the dental problems).
After awhile however I found that I have to change the MP placement to the opposite - off center to the left again due to the dental problems.
While my 'off center to the right' embouchure placement used to give me some adequate results, moving the MP to the opposite side, my new 'off center to the left' MP placement made me sound like I just picked up the trumpet for the first time in terms of sound production of course: the sound is dead and _very airy_, range is narrowed, notes are missed, etc.
I've been in this new position for 3 days. I'm sure I can't expect too much in such short time but what should I foresee as a realistic adaptation period before I come back to normal with this new MP position? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
If the issue with the 'left placement' is due to muscle strength and coordination, then I'd guess at least a month is needed. And probably longer for your upper range.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_680e93b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Changing MP placement and its effects |
|
|
SaxoTrump wrote: | Being an amateur less than successful trumpet player I nevertheless managed to survive since I had found a sweet lips spot off center to the right. I played that way for quite awhile.
(I can't play in the middle due to the dental problems).
After awhile however I found that I have to change the MP placement to the opposite - off center to the left again due to the dental problems.
While my 'off center to the right' embouchure placement used to give me some adequate results, moving the MP to the opposite side, my new 'off center to the left' MP placement made me sound like I just picked up the trumpet for the first time in terms of sound production of course: the sound is dead and _very airy_, range is narrowed, notes are missed, etc.
I've been in this new position for 3 days. I'm sure I can't expect too much in such short time but what should I foresee as a realistic adaptation period before I come back to normal with this new MP position? |
Any change takes time, even a minute one, and your talking about moving to the other side of your lips. How long did it take for you to become "proficient" on your right side? It will take at least as long for you to completely change to the other side i would think. Don't envy you but wish you the best in your attempts, as it seems you really have a need to play the trumpet. If i had to deal with all those dental issues i'd probably go back to playing the drums!!
regards,
tom |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SaxoTrump Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 270 Location: Eastern Europe
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
JayKosta wrote: | If the issue with the 'left placement' is due to muscle strength and coordination,
then I'd guess at least a month is needed. And probably longer for your upper range.
Jay |
Yes Jay, it feels like that's the reason for poor sound production after the change. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SaxoTrump Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 270 Location: Eastern Europe
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Changing MP placement and its effects |
|
|
KRELL1960 wrote: | ...it seems you really have a need to play the trumpet. If i had to deal with all those dental issues i'd probably go back to playing the drums!!
regards,
tom |
Tom, I'm one of the more (if not most) stubborn people I've met in my life.
I often stuggle with things where most people would give up long time ago and be happy in other areas. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_680e93b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Changing MP placement and its effects |
|
|
SaxoTrump wrote: | KRELL1960 wrote: | ...it seems you really have a need to play the trumpet. If i had to deal with all those dental issues i'd probably go back to playing the drums!!
regards,
tom |
Tom, I'm one of the more (if not most) stubborn people I've met in my life.
I often stuggle with things where most people would give up long time ago and be happy in other areas. |
Saxo,
That kind of stubborness is a very admirable trait ! keep at it, you've made it work once and it will again !!
good luck !!
tom |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
What mouthpiece are you using? _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SaxoTrump Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 270 Location: Eastern Europe
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Richard III wrote: | What mouthpiece are you using? |
Plain old cornet Bach 7C.
I don't think my MP is of any relevance to my modest progress either past or present. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gabriel127 Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Southern U.S.
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Moving the mouthpiece vertically (up or down) on the chops is the least troublesome change to make.
Moving the mouthpiece laterally is another ballgame. If the repositioning is just slightly to the right or left, this is a change that can take a very long time and can drive you nuts in the process. This is because the muscles and nerves have been accustomed to working a certain way with the aperture in a particular place. When you move it just slightly to the left or right, you have to retrain the muscles and nerves to work a little bit differently. Your muscle-memory will want to keep working the way it used to. Couple this with the fact that you have built up a callus where the mouthpiece used to be. Moving to the side causes you to straddle part of the old callus and then develop one for the place that used to be under the rim. This is not an easy change to make.
If on the other hand, you are moving from one side of the mouth completely to the other side, in other words, your entire mouthpiece is now sitting in a completely different place from before with no overlap, you will have an easier time with this change. The downside is that you're basically starting from scratch from a neuromuscular standpoint. The upside is that you don't have to hassle with retraining and splitting the old callus as with the situation I've just described.
How long will it take? That depends on a lot of factors, but if you're as patient and persistent as you claim to be, then I'd say don't worry about how long it takes, just practice a lot of the right things diligently and consistently for the best results.
What those "right things" are is another discussion, which I'll allow others to answer if they wish. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
SaxoTrump wrote: | Richard III wrote: | What mouthpiece are you using? |
Plain old cornet Bach 7C.
I don't think my MP is of any relevance to my modest progress either past or present. |
The cup diameter, the cup shape and the bore size all have relevance to the type of embouchure and how it develops. A deep V cup with an open bore will promote a certain type of embouchure, one that is more centered with a focus to it that is further from the face. A shallow mouthpiece promotes a whole bunch of other attributes. But that's just my opinion. I don't like a trumpet mouthpiece played on a cornet. That does not promote best technique. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Actually, moving a mouthpiece position is quite a simple thing, but creating the habits to keep it there are quit complex and need a degree of patience and time.
If you move the mouthpiece, there is one thing which needs to be determined: does the change make things better or worse? If worse, then it is NOT a good idea to follow. Find a different position that does work. After all, the ability to hear, even for an amateur player, the sound informs us if something is better or worse.
If there are dental issues, then the question will be about the issue being fixed, rather than changing a playing setup that works...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SaxoTrump Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 270 Location: Eastern Europe
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Andy Del wrote: | ...
If there are dental issues, then the question will be about the issue being fixed, rather than changing a playing setup that works...
cheers
Andy |
Unfortunately that's beyond my reach. It will take a few years and it's not worth it as it will cost me a fortune. I won't go into details here because no one is really interested in them I guess. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I made a position change years ago from an off-center placement to a pretty much dead-center placement but it also involved changing the way I interacted with the mp and the mechanics of how I do things, and also had my teeth altered - upper front incisors shortened to the same length as the teeth next to them - that by itself made a big difference.
I still find my horn tends to point to the left, which it did before I made the change, though I find I can play straight dead ahead more effectively now than I could when I first started this process.
Hard to say how long it took because I've continued making subtle changes over the years with better and better functionality. Also a mouthpiece change that made a difference. I played a Jet-Tone T1A for years that I used to like, switched first to a Schilke 14A4A for a little while until by lucky happenstance I stumbled onto a Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead which I like far better. Now the Jet-Tone doesn't even feel that great - I feel very restricted by it. Always open to something that works even better than the Shew but so far haven't found it.
As far as the effect, I can do everything better now than I could before I made the changes. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|