Church never confirmed gig, music, pay, but expects to show?

parentologist · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 45

Bad situation here. My kid is a high school student, but plays at pro level. An Easter gig was offered to him just 5 days before Easter, by an intermediary being paid by a church to procure musicians - not a trumpet player. I asked for music, location of church, and rate of pay. Intermediary was slow to respond, but eventually replied that church was a 90 minute drive away (and kid doesn't have license yet), and the rate of pay was $200 less than an Easter gig in that area that we had already decided against because it was too far. I responded immediately to intermediary that kid was willing to do the gig, but the rate of pay was too low and would Church match the rate kid had already decided against, and could they send the music. Intermediary said that was up to the Church, but did not give us contact info. I replied saying then have Church contact me ASAP. Never heard anything back, figured Church was not interested in proceeding.

So tonight after 1030 PM,the night before Easter, a group email comes in from Church music director. This is the first contact we've had from Church. The email gives call time, states that they've thrown in an extra $25 for travel expenses, but they don't know who got what, and the musicians can "work it out amongst yourselves." No music, no agreement, and kid never said he would even DO this gig, let alone do it for $200 less than the going rate! Plus I would have to drive him, stay, and drive back - it would be 4 hrs of work plus 3 hrs of driving.

I immediately emailed both church director and the intermediary, saying there has been a terrible "misunderstanding" here, and that kid can do the gig, but he needs the music, and needs to be paid the going rate ($200 more than they offered). Neither the intermediary nor the church music director are responding.

Kid says we have to go, because otherwise his name could be ruined. I'm furious. I'm not in good health, and this is going to be very hard on me. Plus I feel that they are taking terrible advantage of a 15 year old. Kid and I never agreed to this gig, and certainly not at the price they offered! But I don't want kid's name ruined. lest they say he didn't show up for a gig (and neglect to say that he'd never agreed to even DO the gig, and that they never responded to multiple requests for music and the going rate of pay for an Easter trumpet)

What do I do?

LittleRusty · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject:

I think you already have your answer. Your child says you have to go.

This is a horrible situation that appears your child got sucked into. I am not sure that the church is doing this due the child’s age. I think they probably have done this to all the others too.

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:39 pm Post subject:

IMO if you never obligated your son to it, you never obligated him to it. I wonder if his fear of getting a bad reputation isn't overreacting. If you never said you'd do it, how could you be responsible for it?

When I worked in the Pentagon, someone had a plaque over his desk that said, "A lack of preparation on your part does not create an emergency on mine".
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parentologist · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 45

I'm just SO angry about this! And the worst of it is that kid loves playing Easter gigs, has been doing them ever since he was 12 or so, but now I never want to take him to one again! This is the first I've heard from this church director, they never confirmed the gig, and certainly not at the appropriate rate of pay. Plus he asked for the music, the intermediary said he'd get it for him, but then hey "ghosted" us! And now, late the night before, they suddenly email him a call time! If he hadn't had an email alert set up on his phone, we probably wouldn't have even seen it.

The kid is so early in his career, the gig is an hour and a half away, and I'm sure that his future music education and achievements would stand against his no-showing this one. But I hate to do it to the kid. He says that under the circumstances, he still has to show up, even though there was no agreement, they never sent the music, and he never agreed to do it for their low rate of pay.

lizardwizard · New Member Joined: 16 Apr 2019 Posts: 1 Location: VA

Ooh boy, I had a "job" like that when I was in high school. You wont see this in time, but tell him that if he goes and plays for under market value, with little notice, and no music he will be setting a precedence for that being "acceptable" behavior.

He will be hurt more in the long run if he bends to their pressure, unless you often go through intermediaries such as in this situation.
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parentologist · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 45

Every time he's played an Easter gig beforehand, the church music director has given him the music ahead of time. He asked for it, was told he would get it, but nope. He figured that this must be how it's done for "pro" level jobs - that they don't need the music ahead of time. Is he wrong?

He's not worried about his ability to sight read the music. But from your post, I get the impression that it's NOT standard for them to not give the music ahead of time.

mdarnton · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:32 pm Post subject:

I say if your intention is to train the music director to abuse musicians, and your son to take it, then the right thing to do is play the job. Otherwise, no, of course not!

LittleRusty · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:04 pm Post subject:

parentologist · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 45

Well, when we hadn't heard back from them by 80 minutes before call time, for a gig that was 90 minutes away, kid and I decided not to make the trip.

How could the "procurer" have been so unprofessional? He promised the music, but never provided it. He was slow to respond on a gig being arranged days before Easter. He said that the issue regarding compensation should be taken up with the church music director, but never gave us the contact information, and despite our request that the he have the church music director contact us asap, we never heard from the church music director until 10:37 PM the night before Easter, and then only in a group email for call time, no music provided. And then neither of them responded to immediate email replies saying that there was an unresolved problem. We communicated promptly with them through the only medium they offered, which was email.

I feel terrible, especially knowing that if the "procurer" never forwarded the request for music and the concern regarding inadequate compensation to the church music director, that the music director is gonna be totally blindsided by this, this morning. But under the circumstances, the only option was to be taken advantage of, or not go.

Thank you all for the feedback. I told kid late last night that until he is 18, all of this gets immediately run through me, but really, he did! He told me of the offered gig right after he heard about it, and I emailed the procurer right after that. I don't know how we could have better handled this. It's just a darn shame.

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:30 am Post subject:

I mean no ill will - hopefully we all learn from our mistakes - but aren't a lot of church gigs run by amateurs? And aren't they vulnerable to a certain degree of unfocused activity?

I check and double check, assuming they're going to miss this or that. If they don't come through, then all bets are off. And have a cut-off point. You have to reach a decision point that is fair to yourself, as well to them.

As I understand your predicament, it seems that you did not have a clear deadline and stick to it, and you backed yourself into a corner. You kept assuming that the intermediary was going to do the right and organized thing. In my eyes, that was a mistake.

BTW, happy Easter to you and your son.
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:41 am Post subject:

Don't assume people - like church music directors or intermediaries/procurers are competent.

Don't say that you or your musician are "available" until you agree on compensation. It's clear that some people take that as an agreement - which it is not. See paragraph above.

Also, like is said in posts above - don't drag things out. If you ask for additional compensation, check back within a week or so, and if they don't have an answer, give them a definitive no.

I also wonder about the utility of negotiating on gigs like this. I haven't done it much, never had any success. I just end up saying no to anything that's too little. Maybe others have more insight and experience with this.

As far as music, there you'd like to think that people are organized and get it to musicians in time to practice. In reality, that doesn't always happen and sight reading is sometimes necessary. It's not a lack of professionalism on your part - see paragraph one.

It's always better to work with people you know and trust. I sometimes took gigs that were slightly less because I knew the situation and that I would be paid at the gig and enjoyed the music over some random unknown deal.

I once had a church music director write down dates for me. Oddly enough he didn't seem to need me on the crucial Sunday morning for whatever reason. I double checked this with him, twice. So, I took another gig for that time. Of course, later he needed me for that morning, and denied that he wrote down and confirmed (twice) incorrect dates and times saying it was my mistake. He was very belligerent, ranting about how he's going to ruin my rep. I found a sub, gave him copies of the music and turned my stuff in to director with the exact napkin that he wrote the dates and times on stapled to it. I never dealt with that jerk again (also his music stunk).

My reputation was not tarnished in any way and my gigs were not impacted. I did spread the word that this guy was a piece of work, though.

Don't be surprised by anything in this business. Feel free to be disappointed, but not surprised.
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LittleRusty · Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:04 am Post subject:

For me the red flag would have been receiving first contact five days before Easter. Easter is one of the big Sundays in the Christian Church and therefore is planned well in advance in well run Churches.

I do wonder why you considered the job in the first place after having turned down another gig due to a similar distance.

Hopefully you and your son have a good day anyway and learn from this.

rlk · Regular Member Joined: 23 Nov 2014 Posts: 35

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 549

How did the gig go?
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LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject:

Gottfried Reiche · Veteran Member Joined: 27 Nov 2013 Posts: 184

Gottfried Reiche · Veteran Member Joined: 27 Nov 2013 Posts: 184

Also, waiting for a better paying gig often doesn't turn out well, and is unprofessional itself, in my opinion.

Turkle · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:33 am Post subject:

A couple thoughts:

1) One gig will not ruin anyone's reputation. As long as your kid has the right attitude - shows up to work early, prepared, plays well, is friendly and accommodating to others, and makes the people that hired him look good - he'll have no trouble getting future work.

2) You have to know when it's the correct time to "fire a client." If someone is offering you a paying gig but they consistently display unprofessional behavior or otherwise make things absurdly difficult, sometimes you have to politely but firmly let them know that you won't be able to work with them any more.

Your best bet is to cultivate a circle of true professionals that are great to work with and really make sure to stick with them. Make sure to prioritize their gigs even if they are a little less money than something else that day - keeping the true pros on your side will be a long-term win. I have a few people I work with extensively here in the city that I know get the job done with a minimum of fuss and I make sure they are my #1 priority. The flakes and bozos can find another trumpet player, thank you.
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parentologist · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 45

Neither the church music director nor the intermediary ever replied. Finally, at the time we would have had to leave, 630 AM, the kid said, "This is ridiculous. How do I know I won't get there and have them say, 'Oh, sorry, we copied you on that email in error." Kid didn't go - and we never heard anything from either of them.

Glad kid decided not to go. Kid forgot about the whole issue quickly, moved on to practicing for an upcoming audition. Water under the bridge, as far as kid is concerned. Meanwhile, I've lived and learned - and next year, we'll know how to handle it.

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

When this happens to me, I go and play. Then I never work there again.

It's really important to nail things down before taking the job. I've been doing this for a long time and still get burned every now and then but, I always play and do my best. I think your kid is on to the idea when he wanted to play.

My best guess at what happened:

A trumpet player took the gig
The trumpet player backed out
The music director cried to the choir at rehearsal. Someone in the choir said "I'll get you a trumpet player"

The choir singer wasn't in charge of anything. The music director thought the choir singer was handling it.

The parishioners lost out on Easter.
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