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50YrComeback
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Joined: 05 Nov 2018
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Location: St. Louis

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Mics & Recording Reply with quote

Looking for affordable but decent quality starting set-up to do in home recording. Initially, I just plan to use to listen, critique & improve my playing but graduating to do some of the play along stuff for my own entertainment.

Even just doing some recording on my i-phone mic app, its amazing to me at the things you hear (some not so pleasant) that you just don't pick up on when you are playing.

An suggestions for budget of $500-$750.
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject: Recording yourself Reply with quote

I use a Zoom H6. The only downside is that it faithfully reproduced what I sound like.
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50YrComeback
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording yourself Reply with quote

Richard A wrote:
The only downside is that it faithfully reproduced what I sound like.




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GaryF
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Kumara999
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:49 am    Post subject: Recording Reply with quote

I also use a zoom H6 - great sound, easy to use controls. Would also recommend.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sony PCM-D10 (just about to be released). A pair of built-in condensers in stereo XY configuration and can be connected directly to XLR microphone of your choice. Looks like PCM-D50 with XLR option built-in.
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deleted_user_48e5f31
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted by dfcoleman

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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The H6 is a fantastic unit and worth every penny!

-T
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50YrComeback
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: H6 Reply with quote

Novice Here - What else do I need? - At this point, I have nothing except a trumpet and a set of lips. I see some bundled kits, etc. What kind of Microphone? Again, wanting to do some recording for quality playback and then add some CD's to play along, recording and playback.


Thx
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GaryF
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Richard A
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Location: Rhode Island, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: H6 Reply with quote

50YrComeback wrote:
Novice Here - What else do I need? - At this point, I have nothing except a trumpet and a set of lips. I see some bundled kits, etc. What kind of Microphone? Again, wanting to do some recording for quality playback and then add some CD's to play along, recording and playback.


Thx

The Zoom H6 comes with two stereo microphones. You’ll want a mic stand and, when you want to play along and overdub, headphones.
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: H6 Reply with quote

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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to get the best sound possible, you will have to go through an array of microphones, preamps and mic/room configurations. There is no shortcut. Only you know what sound you want.

If you want to hear yourself as if on stage, get a Shure SM57 with the optional sponge foam windscreen, to protect the bell:

tom turner wrote:
Hi John,

I once managed a music store, and my Shure rep confirmed my suspicions, both mics are identical except for the windscreens.

As you know, the 58 has a big metal grill ball, and the 57 a sort of squared off end.

When I used 'em for my horn, I much prefered the 57 WITH the optional Shure foam windscreen for the 57.

Using a 57 w/ foam windscreen will REALLY protect the bell on your Callet Jazz.


TWO OTHER RECOMENDATIONS:

1. If you love the 57/58 sound, try a Beyer 500C ribbon mic. It has virtually the same sound as the 57/58, yet much smoother and warmer. They are wonderful mics, albiet more fragile due to the ribbon.

2. If you want a very pure sound that's very natural and realistic, try an Audio-Technica ATM-33a (or the earlier generation ATM-11). After having quite a few mics (including all those mentioned above), I discovered the ATM-11 waaaay back in the early 80's. The design is so good that it is still going strong as the model 33a!

I use 'em for close mic'ing trumpet AND for distant mic'ing of ensembles. I've never, ever had a moment's problem out of either of mine and the frequency response curve is "flat," as it should be for mics used to pick up instruments.

I'll be using one tomorrow night, as a matter of fact.

You can sometimes find ATM-11 and ATM-11a (the phantom-powered one that's otherwise the same) mics on e-bay and they typically go for less than most harmon mutes!

If you get a chance up there in NYC, contact a few studios and see if someone will let you try one. They don't cost an arm or a leg . . . and you'll sound great!!!

Sincerely,

Tom
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mpsjazz
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Joined: 30 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Recording yourself Reply with quote

Richard A wrote:
I use a Zoom H6. The only downside is that it faithfully reproduced what I sound like.


I don't quite agree. I don't believe any recorder or microphone is all that true to the original, and it will only record within its special field of capture. When we play, our ears make allowances for the acoustics of the room and we adjust our playing to it. We visualise a complete picture, which is really like a jigsaw puzzle. If for some reason, those acoustics are not captured or the mic hears them differently, then only a part of the jigsaw puzzle is made, thus our sound seems incomplete and possibly distasteful. In a very dry studio there are no acoustics, so maybe then we know what we should produce for ourselves and for the microphone, and the "true" sound is captured this way.

But we train to perform not just to record, so in a way, the acoustics of a venue are really a part of our instruments' natural sound, even though they are fickle and may be better or worse, and sometimes leave us unable to adjust. What we need to do is stop blaming our playing and get smarter at using compensating technology, because the venue acoustics are getting worse for us, that is unless you're lucky enough to play in the best concert halls all the time.

There is another factor. Our "ears" compensate for missing sounds, imagining what it is meant to be, with just one exception, and that is when we are listening to ourselves. We do not hear ourselves as others do, not even on recordings. So take heart! When I hear a "bad" recording of myself (which is nearly always IMO) I try to learn from it, but I remind myself too that (in effect) I'm really better than that. Think of all the actors who can't bear to watch their own performances. They can see through themselves in a way that the public can't. But it's not fair on them really, beause they may be great actors.

The H6 seems to be a great audio recorder. If you are clever with your deployment of it, you should get some pleasing results, so long as you can be a bit understanding/forgiving with yourself.
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mpsjazz
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking for some new mics, now that I've decided to be more assertive with the technology and not be defeated by third-rate acoustics and recordings. I don't have much to spend right now (gotta buy a video-audio camera too) so maybe I'll start with a trumpet mic worth around €150.

I'm considering getting a Sennheiser E602 II or a Shure 57A Beta or a Heil PR2OUT. Any opinions about these mics, or others? Must I spend more, so as not to be disappointed. Currently I'm using my vocal mic which is a Sennheiser e845S.

Answers much appreciated.
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Brass musician & pianist. Main horns: Bach Strad ML37 tpt with 3c & Yamaha long model cornet with 3c. Fun horns: 1926 Conn Victor with A-change system & 1926 King tenor/baritone horn, forward-facing. Tubas: Eb Besson & Eb Hawkes.
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Recording Yourself Reply with quote

mpsjazz wrote:
I am looking for some new mics, now that I've decided to be more assertive with the technology and not be defeated by third-rate acoustics and recordings. I don't have much to spend right now (gotta buy a video-audio camera too) so maybe I'll start with a trumpet mic worth around €150.

I'm considering getting a Sennheiser E602 II or a Shure 57A Beta or a Heil PR2OUT. Any opinions about these mics, or others? Must I spend more, so as not to be disappointed. Currently I'm using my vocal mic which is a Sennheiser e845S.

Answers much appreciated.


I have gotten good results using the MXL 990/991 with a Presonus interface. Another option is the Zoom Q8- it’s basically a Zoom H5 with a camcorder grafted on. It also has two XLR inputs and will provide phantom power.
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aTrumpetdude
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For home recording I use a budget ribbon mic APEX 210. To my ears it records a more natural trumpet sound than the budget condenser mics I used previously.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For home recording I use a budget ribbon mic APEX 210. To my ears it records a more natural trumpet sound than the budget condenser mics I used previously.


This. These Apex ribbons have good sound for the price but the quality of the pre-amp matters. I replaced the stock transformer with a Lundahl transformer. I was surprised at the improvement in sound.
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yipDog
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Joined: 04 May 2019
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject: Mics Reply with quote

I have been a recording engineer for almost 29 years. (Went that path rather than performer)
Now that I picked up trumpet again I wanted a decent mic. I ended up with a Golden Age Projects R1 Tube Ribbon mic. I run it to a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2
All in it’s about $500 in gear and works on my laptop or desktop with a variety of software.
The biggest reason I recommend the R1 tube mic is the sound. Thick! And still has all the details. No mud. It also has ridiculous side rejection meaning even in less than perfect acoustic environments it sounds great!
I am posting this link with the caveat that I had started playing about 6 weeks before this after a 25 year hiatus from trumpet. Be kind but listen to the sound. All I did was add some reverb. Rest is the mic! And yes, I am aware there is a sync issue as I fixed a portion of audio without fixing the video. My lips only had so many takes in them!🤣
https://vimeo.com/306055799
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice job yipDog!
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Mics Reply with quote

yipDog wrote:
I have been a recording engineer for almost 29 years. (Went that path rather than performer)
Now that I picked up trumpet again I wanted a decent mic. I ended up with a Golden Age Projects R1 Tube Ribbon mic. I run it to a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2
All in it’s about $500 in gear and works on my laptop or desktop with a variety of software.
The biggest reason I recommend the R1 tube mic is the sound. Thick! And still has all the details. No mud. It also has ridiculous side rejection meaning even in less than perfect acoustic environments it sounds great!
I am posting this link with the caveat that I had started playing about 6 weeks before this after a 25 year hiatus from trumpet. Be kind but listen to the sound. All I did was add some reverb. Rest is the mic! And yes, I am aware there is a sync issue as I fixed a portion of audio without fixing the video. My lips only had so many takes in them!🤣
https://vimeo.com/306055799


WELL done!
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mm55
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Mics Reply with quote

yipDog wrote:
It also has ridiculous side rejection meaning even in less than perfect acoustic environments it sounds great!


But the side facing away from your trumpet has no rejection at all. That could be a problem in less-than-perfect acoustic environments.

Neither the excellent side rejection nor the completely absent back rejection is "ridiculous". It's an ordinary ribbon-mic "figure 8" polar pattern, like pretty much any ribbon. Which means it picks up sound from the back just as well as it does from the front.
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