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Couesnon Flugelhorn


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etorres16
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:13 am    Post subject: Couesnon Flugelhorn Reply with quote

I'm sure this has been covered before, as I've done my search on here about Couesnon Flugelhorns, but I didn't find anything to really help out with my flugel. Maybe someone can chime in about this one:

This is found on the bell area:

Couesnon
Paris
785XX
Made in France

The letter B is stamped on one side of the 2nd valve, and the number 140 is stamped on the other side. That's all the markings on this horn.
Anyone have any ideas on the year of this horn? Thanks.
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markp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no answer for you etorres, but let me add to your question: How many different models of Couesnon flugles are there, and are some better than others? I know mine is DAMN good, but where can you read about what the dimensions, bore sizes, bell sizes, serial #s matched with years, and all that good technical stuff that is available for Bachs, Benges, etc?

I know there was a model called "Monopole," whatever the hell that means. If you have one, is it supposed to be stamped on the horn somewhere?

Mine has stamped on the bell:

Couesnon
405 Rue La Favette
Paris
Made in France
56521

There is also a "N" stamped onto the second valve casing.

As popular as these horns are, with a sort of cult-like following, shouldn't there be a website devoted to information about them?
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Yours has a later serial number, and is surely the same model Couesnon as mine, a 2155 model . . . although Couesnon didn't put the model number on the flugle!

I bought my 2155 new in 1972, after a three months of weekends searching for the best flugle out there. The 2155 was THE ONE!

How do I know it is a 2155 model? Well . . . I still have the original hang tag that was affixed to the handle when I bought it.

Here's a composite photo that shows both sides of the hang tag:


Since the factory was consumed by fire over 20 years ago, no records exist as to models, serial numbers, or manufacturing dates of Couesnon instruments so there's no way to date the more modern examples.

Earlier Couesnons had a little pineapple stamped on the bell near the Couesnon name. Inside the pineapple was a two digit number indicating the year (in the 20th century) that the horn was made. Thus, a 29 within the pineapple meant it was made in 1929. Naturally, the later Couesnons like ours don't have the pineapple. That's probably good too.

Hopefully this will allow you to know a little more about your flugle. This model has a two piece bell, unlike the Monopole and Monopole Star models, yet this model easily bested the Monopoles I've tried . . . and was cheaper too, showing you that it's not an ancient specimen.

I retired mine a little over a year ago when I finally found a better flugle . . . and new Flip Oakes "Wild Thing," but the Queenie is still around, should I need to loan it out on a gig to make sure the whole section is on flugles.

Sincerely,

Tom Turner
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markp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,

Thanks for the information, but were you referring to me or etorres when you said that yours is the same as mine?

Also, how is my Queenie different from etorres's?
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markp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you still out there Tom? How do you know if you have a Monopole or not? Does it say "Monopole" somewhere on the instrument?
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markp wrote:
Tom,

Thanks for the information, but were you referring to me or etorres when you said that yours is the same as mine?

Also, how is my Queenie different from etorres's?


Hi,

I was referring to the original poster, etorres 16, with the serial number 785XX and that same stampings on the bell.
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markp wrote:
Are you still out there Tom? How do you know if you have a Monopole or not? Does it say "Monopole" somewhere on the instrument?


If it is a Monopole it says "Monopole."

If it is a Monopole Star it says "Monopole Star."

These had one-piece bells too. That's also an easy thing to see, but one-piece bells don't necessarily make a better sounding horn. For instance, today's Eclipse trumpets use two-piece bells.

Hope this helps,

Tom
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777
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Couesnon says this on the bell;

COUESNON
PARIS
76xxx
MADE IN FRANCE

On the second valve, on the right side, bottom, there's an;

X

On the bottom left of each of the valves, they are numbered respectively;

1 2 3

On the lead pipe, where the tuning slide goes in, there a crudely stamped;

146

My daddy bought it for me (new as I recall) when I was a teenager about 1975 or so.

Brad
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Couesnon flugel
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great responses guys!

If we could get enough players to post their serial numbers and dates they purchased new eventually there would be some decent serial number dating info about Couesnons.

Sincerely,

Tom Turner
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J. Crowley
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine says:

Couesnon
Paris
made in France
741xx

I had one that I sold that said:

Couesnon
Star
(this one had perfect lacquer which makes me think it was newer)

The one I kept obviously plays better. What's the difference between models?
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cyber_shake
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Couesnon serial number Reply with quote

Mine is:

Couesnon
Paris
Made in France
78565

Purchased new at Ray Lammer's Muisc in Cincinnati, OH in 1979.

BTW = .413 bore. 140 stamped on 3rd valve casing and 'N' on the 2nd valve casing. Silver plated.

I ordered a Lawler TLFL last year and love it more than the Couesnon ... so if anyone lives near Cincy and is interested ... let me know. I may post it on the 'for sale forum' but will try to sell it locally first.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject: Couesnon Flugel Reply with quote

Well, guys, mine is an "Elkhart" with that name and an styllized modern "e" on the bell. however, it looks just like a 70's Couesnon and I've been told these were American stencil horns made by Couesnon, maybe for Conn. It is 0.413" bore at the second valve. In addition to 1-2-3 on the valve casings, it says 130 verticaly on one side of the second valve and "N" on the other. On the collar that tightens around the leadpipe, it says "21" that is right side up when you set the flugel on a stand and then there is a small "D" that is upside down relative to the "21" and next to the little locking knob. There is an "834" serial number on a collar in the middle of the horn where the bell joins the tubing going into the third valve, right next to the thrid valve slide.

Plays pretty nicely, valves very tight and was a find in a local pawn shop for $150. Some lacquer wear, but I think it is "arrogantly shabby" and will do until I can afford a Wild Thing or Lawler. I am not a pro, but I don't notice a lot of intonation issues. Just a thought on the Queenie step-brothers . . . any info on dating or identifying this more precisely would be appreciated.

Surely there is still someone living in France who knows what those "N's" and "X's" and so on mean . . .
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Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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etorres16
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All these responses are GREAT!! Keep them coming.

I just wanted to add, I just found another number on the inside part of the 2nd valve slide.

The number is 195.

Tom, I wonder if yours has a number there also. I wish I knew what all these numbers meant.
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somedaylikechet
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom turner wrote:


If it is a Monopole it says "Monopole."

...

These had one-piece bells too.


Please help me with mine: It's a 2-piece bell, has Monopole stamped in the bell, but no serial number at all. I looked everywhere and just cannot find one.

I will post pitures later.

Daniel
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777
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Crowley & Blaine,

I noticed that the serial numbers & the "Made in France" were reversed in relation to the postings before it. Are they truly in that order on your bells?

Also mine stampings were all upper case, just as I posted them. Are yours a mixture of upper & lower case letters?

Minutia, I know, but I'm looking for patterns.

Brad
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cyber_shake
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brad,

Good catch! You are right... I reversed the order. Should be:

COUESNON
PARIS
78565
MADE IN FRANCE

All in 'caps'



Thanx,
Blaine
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Last edited by cyber_shake on Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cyber_shake
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other item I messed up on my first posting above was the proper location of the '140' model marking. It is on the left hand (as you hold the horn) side of the 2nd valve casing... not on the 3rd.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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J. Crowley
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine says:

COUESNON (with the C wraped around the "o")
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
74XXX
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J. Crowley
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should also add mine has 'N' stamped under the second valve pipe on the valve section and '11' stamped on the top of the mouthpiece reciever and "Bb" and "A" stamped on the sides of the mouthpiece reciever(one Bb on one side A on the other)
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cyber_shake
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my horn = the 'C' in COUESNON is the same size as all other letters in COUESNON - it does not encircle the 'O'.

- The one thing that I've noticed about Couesnon is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of 'patterns' to markings or their placement on the horn ... so being a detective on these horns is not an easy task.

You can see the bell markings on my horn at the link listed in my earlier post (from today).

Cheers!
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