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Intonation for high E and Eb?



 
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Intonation for high E and Eb? Reply with quote

Having some trouble developing good intonation specifically on these two pitches. They tend to be pretty flat. The D, and the the F are quite close...but the E's are low.

Any generic suggestions? Using 2 and 3 for the Eb helps a bit. But, it's a fairly distracting problem.

Thanks
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find there's enough wiggle room to lip it there. That said I have preferences.

D 0 (sometimes 1)
D# 2
Eb 23 (sometimes 2)

E usually sits nice open for me. Very rarely choose 12.

Maybe look into the backbore and gap. On lead stuff I had to tighten the BB down a lot. I use a J29 now.

Mike
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Intonation for high E and Eb? Reply with quote

acritzer wrote:
Having some trouble developing good intonation specifically on these two pitches. They tend to be pretty flat. The D, and the the F are quite close...but the E's are low.

Any generic suggestions? Using 2 and 3 for the Eb helps a bit. But, it's a fairly distracting problem.

Thanks


I'm guessing that this guy is a fairly good player. Why? Because he's actually concerned about his intonation lol.

Acritzer,
You didn't mention playing the high E natural 1&2 valves. Does this help at all? And what kind of musical style is most of your work? Also, is it your ear that notices or is it the electronic tuner? I've often observed some darn fine lead players hit a note that sounded sweet as pie but the tuner marked it up to 8 cents sharp. And as I'd paid good money to see this fellow several times already? Well I guess that his intonation certainly wasn't hurting his business.

Another thought would be to hit the High E first valve but pulll the related slide out with your right thumb. This is a place where a good first valve slide trigger is probably required. Needless to say? Try this in rehearsal first to see how comfortable it feels.

You're a smart man acritzer! Because only a bright fellow is concerned abt the flat tones. The sharper pitches being easily adjusted by slides. So I think. The reason I asked what style is that in jazz or lead playing Ive always chosen shallower mouthpiece cups. And these Ive always produced pitches which I've been able to bend easy enough. Sometimes a little too easy.

Though I can't remember the source? Ive been told that certain changes to the mouthpiece gap reduced the pitch variance upstairs.

And then one time I picked up the Yamaha "Bobby Shew Horn". Though it advertized as a small bore? This was only through the valves. The rest was a big bore. Like .463 or close to it. Maybe .464! And there wasnt a truly bad pitch on the whole ax! Amaxing. Not even the low D natural needed correction. I'm not kidding. Versatile snd Big Sound! I'd have bought the thing right on the spot but it cost 2 grand. Didn't have the money.
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. To answer some questions. I'm primarily using a Pickett 5c with a 10-2. Mostly I play traditional church material...but this issue pops up when I work on show books. And/or simply when I'm doing exercises. Scales, arpeggio, range building etc.

I seem able to bend up a bit, but usually this will lead to me jumping up to the next note. The E isn't usually as bad as I thought and certainly not as bad the Eb. I'll keep experimenting with fingerings!

Thanks.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is tension just blow intonation will straighten itself.
Rod
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Jon_Manness
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely check the gap. I found that those high Eb, E, and F's can be wonky if the gap ain't right.

https://www.bobreeves.com/products/papertrick.htm
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rod Haney wrote:
My guess is tension just blow intonation will straighten itself.
Rod


This is interesting as I have been working for several weeks to lessen overall tension. I had thought I was going too far and that's why some of these notes were coming in so low? Back to work.
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon_Manness wrote:
Definitely check the gap. I found that those high Eb, E, and F's can be wonky if the gap ain't right.

https://www.bobreeves.com/products/papertrick.htm


I've avoided this on purpose, not wanting to get into weeds too much. That being said, I know of several players that really think it makes a difference.

If it is a gap issue...is it normal for it only to cause problems for 1 or 2 notes?
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your tongue level and breath support.Too much or too little of either, or a combination of both can affect intonation.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find if I can keep my throat open that my intonation gets better but I am usually sharp and your issue with flat may be different, maybe something you did to reduce tension wasn’t a correct approach. Do you still have the issue when you blow as you did before your experiments. I believe in experimentation with one change at a time and evaluation of if or how it changed sound.
Rod
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