Larger backbores?

[dghill1@charter.net]

Hi Any one have trouble playing tighter backbores.? I know they are more efficient, but I guess Im not. Will opening the throat work or have you found you need to just play larger stuff? For me I like the open feel of big backbores but I still want the focus and pop. Thanks for your time. George Hill

[Type3B]

Hey George -- I stared a recent thread on a similar topic: backbore and endurance. I play a Stork Studio Master VM6, which is described by Stork as a good crossover piece. It has the deepest of the Studio Master cups (although still fairly shallow), almost a V-cup, and has what Stork calls a "large" backbore (not sure exactly what they mean by that). I've had great success using this piece to play lead in a big band. It does have plenty of "focus and pop" for me, and I have not experienced it causing my range to suffer. I'm currently experimenting with the Stork XM6, which is the same mouthpiece with a tighter backbore (the results aren't in yet). All this is to say that I think it's possible to have focus, pop, and range on a larger backbore, DEPENDING on the overall design of the mouthpiece, the horn, and the player.
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[John Mohan]

I prefer larger than stock backbores. Tighter backbores add resistance but that extra resistance is on the wrong side of the vibrating lips and can't be changed. I think it's better to create resistance with proper tongue arch (aka tongue levels), as then the resistance is just before the vibrating lips and can be infinitely adjusted as needed. To me, a tighter backbore is not efficient (except at wearing me out faster because of the need to blow harder against all that resistance).

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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[John Mohan]

Type3B, your's is the best profile signature. Ever.

[Type3B]

Hey John -- Your insights were great. I've often thought about resistance, but never about the difference on what side of the aperture it's on. So far, on my two Stork Studio Masters with identical specs except for backbore, I too have found the larger backbore better. Thanks for the shout out on my signature. My Buick is the only thing made of metal I've been able to hang on to for fifteen years, so I decided to use that instead of my evolving trumpet equipment. There's something to be said for planting the flag in terms of horn and mouthpiece, and I'm working on that, but at least I've done so with my ride!
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[JVL]

John how are you ?

when you say "To me, a tighter backbore is not efficient (except at wearing me out faster because of the need to blow harder against all that resistance)." i'm wondering if you did'nt used the word "need" by mistake, because if a bb is too much tight for some player, you certainly don't need at all to blow harder, since you never can overcome nor win the resistance.
Til you'll be able to get another mpc, the best thing to do is back off and play thanks the most efficient resonance (fastest response you can create).
Of course, one must use the best tool fitting his capacities and physiology
best

[WaveVector]

No problems

[dghill1@charter.net]

H.i Just wanted to thank every one for their response. I do better on bigger back bores should just go with it I guess. Thanks again George Hill

[cgaiii]

I have found that it depends on the horn and even the configuration of the horn. If the horn itself is tight, the tighter backbore is often fine. However, when the horn is more open, I find that the tighter backbore takes away from the openness.
However, what I like is not always the best for the sound in an objective test (someone else listening or several people listening), so there is always a compromise.
Interestingly, on my Schilke X3L, I found the standard Bach backbore and a more open throat worked best until I put brass valve guides in and then a more open backbore worked better. I have no explanation for this, but it was the case both for me as a player and for people listening.
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[dghill1@charter.net]

Hi In the last response cgaiii mentioned the openness of the horn as a factor in backbore choice. I played a gig yesterday with a 7s Hammond in my 1s2 Calicchio, liked the sound,but I played it stuffy. Im thinking of talking to Karl about threading the top to let me try larger back bores.I have friends who play wonderfully on Karls #1 BB. Thanks yet again for your time George Hill

[Jabroni]

This is a very good topic. Personally I use a 10 Warburton BB for my C trumpet and 9* for Eflat/D. I am still trying to find the perfect BB for my Bflat trumpet! Any suggestions would be appreciated. My cup is equivalent to a 3C.

[kalijah]

Backbores affect the acoustics of the instrument along with other physical characteristics of the trumpet and the mouthpiece.

It does ultimately become a matter of preference but the technical discussion here is limited and poorly understood.

Every instrument has acoustic impedance. This IS absolutely necessary.

The efficiency is not simply a product of the instrument but of the player AND the instrument.

Effective tone production by the aperture will increase the resistance of the instrument AND will increase the efficiency of the system.

The playing characteristics of the instrument then become a matter of preference by the player.

All things being equal, a more resistive instrument is more efficient but in excess it MAY limit the power and dynamic range of the player or may simply "feel" too resistive. Efficiency is not the end goal, yet musical expression is.

Resistance to air flow inside the body up to and including the aperture is ALWAYS a detriment to efficiency. Resistance in the body is NEVER a replacement for resistance in the instrument.

If you prefer more resistance it is ALWAYS best to chose equipment that results in your preferred amount rather than to creating it with the body. Any air power spent on body resistance is 100 present wasted and does not contribute to sound.

Ideally the instrument should be the ONLY resistance for best efficiency.

The body is absolutely the wrong side of the aperture for the resistance to reside. Those who claim otherwise simply do not understand the mechanics of the system and are advising inefficiency.

While there is always some air flow resistance by the body, (the aperture is by far the dominant contributor), it is a necessary evil. But there ARE ways to reduce its contribution to inefficiency.

[Tpt_Guy]

Let's also not forget that a backbore that is too large or too small can raise or lower pitches in different registers and result in partials being out of tune. An example would be compressed or augmented octaves. If this occurs, it forces the player to play off the most resonant center to play in tune, which adds to the resistance.

As kalijah pointed out, it is largely personal. Find what works for you and stick with it. This may not be the same from horn to horn.
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[JayKosta]

[kalijah]

The acoustic impedance of the player is negligible.