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uclaman
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Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:21 pm Post subject: Comeback player |
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So I know there are a lot of options when it comes to horns.
But is there an ideal type of trumpet for a comeback player?
Is it better to have more resistance? Less resistance?
Commercial type trumpet?
I assume medium large bore is ideal?
Any thoughts? |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7010
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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| uclaman wrote: | So I know there are a lot of options when it comes to horns.
But is there an ideal type of trumpet for a comeback player?
Is it better to have more resistance? Less resistance?
Commercial type trumpet?
I assume medium large bore is ideal?
Any thoughts? |
The type of horn is not nearly so important as taking the chance to start your comeback well. I had a pretty good Benge 5X when I started and it was just fine for a number of years. In that time, I ran into the old limitations that brought me to quit playing trumpet in the first place. So, I looked to identify the problems and learn a better way to play.
After a few years of growth, when I had advanced to the point where I peaked in college, but without the bad technique, I began to understand what I preferred in a horn. In the end, I ended up with something very different from the normal Bach/Yamaha recommendations, but I did so with full knowledge of what I wanted and needed to play the music I wished to play.
Start with something that's not junk. Take you time and learn really good basic technique from a good player. Choose your horn a few years down the road.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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[quote="shofarguy"] | uclaman wrote: |
Start with something that's not junk. Take you time and learn really good basic technique from a good player. Choose your horn a few years down the road. |
Now I like that! Sounds like really good advice. Get into the game, find out what it's all about, what contributes to your idea of music and which machine fits the bill.
Then part with the good lucre (big bills). |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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| uclaman wrote: | ...
Is it better to have more resistance? Less resistance?
Commercial type trumpet?
I assume medium large bore is ideal?
Any thoughts? |
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Resistance - it shouldn't feel like you're having to use strong force to get sound, but a little resistance is fine. A common complaint about horns with low resistance is that they inhibit endurance.
Commercial / Lead / Orchestral - don't worry, as long as it sounds and plays OK - a 'student model' of a 'name brand' would be fine. And keep it as a backup if you later get another horn.
ML bore is the most typical and works well for most people, but a M or L shouldn't be dismissed if it plays and feels good.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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uclaman
New Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Ok. Thanks for the advice. Just purchased a kanstul 1600. Too bad i cant play like wayne right now. |
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TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2412
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | Start with something that's not junk. Take you time and learn really good basic technique from a good player. Choose your horn a few years down the road. |
Good advice. Worth repeating.
I came back to the trumpet about 10 years ago, after a 15+ year break. At first, I was tempted to sell my old trumpet and get a new one. But instead, I took a couple years to get my skills back, before I started looking at new equipment.
And after an extended safari, I couldn't find a better horn than the one I already had. I ended up having that horn refurbished (rebuilt valves, replaced lead pipe, relacquer, etc). It's a great horn. I'm so glad that I didn't impulsively sell it when I started playing again.
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | Start with something that's not junk. Take you time and learn really good basic technique from a good player. Choose your horn a few years down the road. |
Good advice. Worth repeating.
I came back to the trumpet about 10 years ago, after a 15+ year break. At first, I was tempted to sell my old trumpet and get a new one. But instead, I took a couple years to get my skills back, before I started looking at new equipment.
And after an extended safari, I couldn't find a better horn than the one I already had. I ended up having that horn refurbished (rebuilt valves, replaced lead pipe, relacquer, etc). It's a great horn. I'm so glad that I didn't impulsively sell it when I started playing again.
Mike |
Don't quite fit that above description but my experience is similar.
Recently I tried a couple of professional horns sitting on the table where I was trying out a range of mutes (didn't find the one I wanted) so had a go on both the horns on table ... long story short ... Felt mine was as good or better than either, so kept mine (an intermediate Conn 83B) with nary a further thought about updating.
One happy vegemite here!  |
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uclaman
New Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Unfortunately I did not have an old trumpet to use for this comeback so I had to purchase one. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7010
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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| uclaman wrote: | So I know there are a lot of options when it comes to horns.
But is there an ideal type of trumpet for a comeback player?
Is it better to have more resistance? Less resistance?
Commercial type trumpet?
I assume medium large bore is ideal?
Any thoughts? |
Okay. Off the wall question: Do you sing? Are you also a vocal performer? I think there is a correlation between the resistance characteristics of a given horn design and vocal technique. In other words, it may be that if you are also a singer, a horn that feels like you can "blow through it" will give you a similar breath experience as singing. Also, a singer already has developed the skill to match the pitch in mind with the pitch coming out of the instrument, which is usually is also required from those trumpets that flow more air. They often have more forgiving "slotting." You can place each note (in fact, you must!) more with the mind and do more with the pitch, if the horn has less up-front resistance. Some call it "less efficient," but I feel it's just freer, less restricted.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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uclaman
New Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Comeback player |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | uclaman wrote: | So I know there are a lot of options when it comes to horns.
But is there an ideal type of trumpet for a comeback player?
Is it better to have more resistance? Less resistance?
Commercial type trumpet?
I assume medium large bore is ideal?
Any thoughts? |
Okay. Off the wall question: Do you sing? Are you also a vocal performer? I think there is a correlation between the resistance characteristics of a given horn design and vocal technique. In other words, it may be that if you are also a singer, a horn that feels like you can "blow through it" will give you a similar breath experience as singing. Also, a singer already has developed the skill to match the pitch in mind with the pitch coming out of the instrument, which is usually is also required from those trumpets that flow more air. They often have more forgiving "slotting." You can place each note (in fact, you must!) more with the mind and do more with the pitch, if the horn has less up-front resistance. Some call it "less efficient," but I feel it's just freer, less restricted. |
No. I dont sing(unless you consider the car and shower as prime venues).
Im just a regular schmoe that was first chair in high school but cut short his career after braces and then went into a career path totally different from music and now I have some time to potentially relearn some music. Then again, my high school was small and im not sure i had much of a professional music career ahead of me anyhow. I probably won’t be the next rick baptist or jon lewis. Im just hoping to get a crack at the local community band and maybe play the flinstones theme song halfway decently.
I just figured id ask the question in case some of you guys felt strongly about comeback players or beginners players learning on a certain kind of horn. |
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Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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As comeback player, if you want an easy go of it, go for an easy to play horn. You may be discouraged too quickly with anything that has too great a resistance.
My experience as a comeback player is that it has been some hard yards and torturous tones to get where I am atm. Now i reckon it,s all in the mind, ie, confidence, compared to where I was 25 or so years ago. |
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spitvalve
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 2157
Location: Little Elm, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Comment deleted because I didn't read all the posts and didn't know he'd already bought a horn.
_________________
Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces
Last edited by spitvalve on Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| uclaman wrote: | | Ok. Thanks for the advice. Just purchased a kanstul 1600. Too bad i cant play like wayne right now. |
Looks like he already purchased a horn, and not a bad choice, IMO.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject: mouthpiece |
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Curious what mouthpiece you are using with your trumpet.
_________________
King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e4 cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 9e cornet mouthpiece
Bach 5 B cornet mouthpiece |
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uclaman
New Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:00 am Post subject: Re: mouthpiece |
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| jondrowjf@gmail.com wrote: | | Curious what mouthpiece you are using with your trumpet. |
Bach 3c.
What do you recommend? |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:05 am Post subject: Re: mouthpiece |
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| uclaman wrote: | ...
Bach 3c.
What do you recommend? |
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The mouthpiece must -
1) 'fits' your lips & teeth, no injury or pain from pressure points, not too big feeling, not too small feeling.
2) allows you to play for a reasonable time without becoming too tired. And the time should slowly increase along with your embrouchure strength.
3) higher notes will come from practice and technique. Only resort to a specialized 'high note' mouthpiece AFTER you've got a playing range up to C above the staff (with a mpc that meets #1&2). And then only if you need the higher range for specific performance situations.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:11 am Post subject: |
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For beginners and those starting over, average size and feel is always best. For mouthpiece diameter however, it may depend on your lip size and physical attributes. That being said, stay on the small side of average. It is not "one size fits all". I recommend the middle range of Schilke mouthpieces such as 11 or 12.
Average equipment (for you) will allow you to move more easily to larger or smaller as your preferences change.
I also highly recommend the middle set of stock Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces. Such as model 9. (Which is what I use primarily) But these will be too small for most large-lipped individuals.
As for resistance of the instrument, ultimately this "feel" depends on the skill of the player in producing tone. Once that is established it really becomes a matter of preference. The impedance of the instrument and the resistance it yields is NECESSARY to play. |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:00 am Post subject: mouthpiece |
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My recommendation is the 3 C too. Personally I like the Denis Wick 3 C over the Bach 3 C.
_________________
King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e4 cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 9e cornet mouthpiece
Bach 5 B cornet mouthpiece |
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RyanFoster
New Member
Joined: 09 May 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Spokane WA | Jersey City NJ
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| As a sort of comeback player, the one thing that's probably the hardest is coming back into an ensemble with a good sense of being in tune. It's probably advisable to go with something that helps with that as much as possible. Yamaha trumpets are usually really well in tune and easy to come back to playing on. |
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uclaman
New Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:35 am Post subject: Re: mouthpiece |
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| jondrowjf@gmail.com wrote: | | My recommendation is the 3 C too. Personally I like the Denis Wick 3 C over the Bach 3 C. |
Why? |
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