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Eb Trumpets


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SJMass
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Location: Boone, NC

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Eb Trumpets Reply with quote

I'm in the market for a Eb/D Trumpet in the coming months. My budget isn't terribly high so i'm here to gague peoples opinions on a few horns. In a perfect world I could afford a E3L. Realistically I want to get a Kanstul 1523. Those horns are relatively hard to come by (besides the one in the marketplace right now). What are peoples opinions on the Bach 189 and Schilke E2?
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach 189 D/Eb has a good reputation and interesting DNA (not sure which way those genes flowed). It has ties back to the Holton high pitch horns of Bach's day. The 25R leadpipe maximizes the length for better intonation with classic Bach characteristics. The 239 bell is similar to the Benge 2 for a very clear sound.

The Schilke E2 is based on the horn that Schilke played himself in his pro career which Benge had made for him (he never did replace that of his friend & apprentice though for himself.) That in turn relates back to a Besson Eb design that I had heard about, but never seen until I encountered one hanging on the wall of Byron Autrey's workshop a few weeks ago - was very tempted to buy it from the estate. If the basic design was good enough for Schilke to play on the inspiration, that's a pretty strong endorsement.

The Schilke E2 in turn has an offspring in the Yamaha YTR-761, designed by Schilke and available used fairly often today (its modern successor available new is the YTR-6610, but I prefer the original). I have a 761 that is my high pitch horn for performance (one of several high pitch horns I own, but the only one I perform on).
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach long Eb/D horns have a great sound, but the tuning is usually not that great. Also, Jim Becker told me the 229 is based on the Benge 2, which would make sense as it is more focused.

I had a Yamaha 761 for a long time and the tuning was still a nightmare. Always try before you buy, no matter what model you are going for. You should also consider the long fixed bell Kanstul if you can find one.
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chrisf3000
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Yamaha E/Eb 9635 is often overlooked, but a fantastic horn. That is, if you aren't looking specifically for the D side of an Eb/D. It has the ease of playing of a light-weight horn, but is considered a "heavy wall" design, so the sound is full and resonant.

If you do want an Eb/D, the Yamaha 9610 is also great. I have always liked the higher horns in the Yamaha family.
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kanstul 923 is an excellent D/Eb trumpet. As Kanstul is no longer around, Hornguys had a customized 923 made for them by Kanstul under the name Stauffer, and they still have some in their inventory. I actually prefer the 923 to the 1523, and the price Hornguys is asking is actually similar to what a used one would bring:

https://www.hornguys.com/collections/d-eb-trumpets/products/stauffer-brass-d-eb-trumpet-1
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Scooter Pirtle
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisf3000 wrote:
The Yamaha E/Eb 9635 is often overlooked, but a fantastic horn. That is, if you aren't looking specifically for the D side of an Eb/D. It has the ease of playing of a light-weight horn, but is considered a "heavy wall" design, so the sound is full and resonant.

If you do want an Eb/D, the Yamaha 9610 is also great. I have always liked the higher horns in the Yamaha family.


Agree about the 9635, but I’ve got more use out of the D configuration on this instrument than I could have ever imagined.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are only going to use the Eb side then just get an Eb trumpet. I bought a Yamaha 751 which is only inD since I have no use for an Eb. It is a couisin of the Yamaha 761 but has a different bore and dimensions. It is a nice D trumpet with no Eb slides or crooks. Lots of guys get an Eb/D and only use it in one key.
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Eb trumpets Reply with quote

Hello all,
I am not in school anymore...way past that. I am not an orchestral player either, though I do my share of small church, chamber orchestra stuff. I have an older modifies trumpet in D, a couple of C trumpets and a piccolo. I have owned three D/Eb trumpets in the past and rarely used them. What I have found though, My Schilke Eb soprano bridges the gap between my C and my pic. The few times I play the middle movements of the Neruda or Haydn in church, or practice brass band music, the soprano is great. Plays comfortably, mostly in-tune and has a nice sound. Otherwise I would own an E3L if I needed a trumpet.
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Eb Trumpets Reply with quote

SJMass wrote:
Realistically I want to get a Kanstul 1523. Those horns are relatively hard to come by (besides the one in the marketplace right now).


I am curious to know what will/has ended up happening to the inventory that did not sell.

funny enough if you look on guitar center they advertise the 1523 Eb trumpet for sale with an expected shipping date of 07/30/19. Today is 06/05. Most likely a glitch on their website, though it would be interesting if they actually would be able to fulfill those orders and ship on 07/30.

I too am in the market. What are peoples thoughts on stomvi? or B&S?
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Eb Trumpets Reply with quote

DJtpt31 wrote:
SJMass wrote:
Realistically I want to get a Kanstul 1523. Those horns are relatively hard to come by (besides the one in the marketplace right now).


I am curious to know what will/has ended up happening to the inventory that did not sell.

funny enough if you look on guitar center they advertise the 1523 Eb trumpet for sale with an expected shipping date of 07/30/19. Today is 06/05. Most likely a glitch on their website, though it would be interesting if they actually would be able to fulfill those orders and ship on 07/30.

I too am in the market. What are peoples thoughts on stomvi? or B&S?


I have friends that find the B&S four valve Eb preferrable to the Schilke E3L-4.
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Eb Trumpets Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
I have friends that find the B&S four valve Eb preferrable to the Schilke E3L-4.


If you mean the Malcolm McNabb "Exquisite" line from B&S, I don't believe it's still in production.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Eb Trumpets Reply with quote

Liberty Lips wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:
I have friends that find the B&S four valve Eb preferrable to the Schilke E3L-4.


If you mean the Malcolm McNabb "Exquisite" line from B&S, I don't believe it's still in production.


Joey Tartell swears by his...he and I went round and round with his B&S and my Schilke. In either event, not seeing the OP ask specific "new" horns, and with a limited budget, I doubt anyone could find either of these horns for less than $2K, maybe more.
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lexluther
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, and everyone else who plays it, absolutely love my Yamaha 6610! It seems to be a slightly larger bore e flat than most others I have played. I consider it as more of a soloist horn. If you see a used one, you should consider it in my opinion. They can be found under $2000.00.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all the Eb/D etc trumpets floating about my studio, the one which fits the OP's needs best is the Kanstul 923. It's not my best horn, but it is so very very close. I use it in D mostly, and in D, it is my go to, unless I need a broader, softer rotary feel and sound. In Eb, it is superb and in tune. (My Schilke E3L was not) In both keys it has a much richer sound than the equivalent Yamaha (Yamaha owners have been quoted as saying 'Oh s***, that rocks' when playing both).

They were a good price. Possibly the horn guys verso will have a similar characteristic, but I suspect they have made changes which brighten it up and make a little more brittle.

If I had to characterise the sound, I'd say it was essentially a sweet Bach 239 without all the intonation problems...

cheers

Andy
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Eb Trumpets Reply with quote

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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI regarding the Schilke E2. It is a .460" bore, the E3 is nearly the same horn in a .450" bore, same as the E3L.
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tuningbell470
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of great posts already!

I just wanted to add my vote for the Stomvi Elite!

I got mine used for £1500 a couple of years back and have used it in plenty of situations (orchestra, quintet (Bach fugues and Renaissance dances work well!), brass band and solo stuff too).

Although I don’t use it as much now that I own a C trumpet, I’ve found it to be a versatile instrument with a good sound and intonation. If you can find one for not too much money it could be a solid investment, especially if you’re unsure what you might get to use the instrument for!
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuningbell470 wrote:

I just wanted to add my vote for the Stomvi Elite!

I got mine used... and have used it in plenty of situations (orchestra, quintet (Bach fugues and Renaissance dances work well!), brass band and solo stuff too).


Do you find that you use it in the Eb configuration or D configuration the most? Do you feel that it is used in orchestral or chamber (quartet/quintet) situations more?
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tuningbell470
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJtpt31 wrote:
tuningbell470 wrote:

I just wanted to add my vote for the Stomvi Elite!

I got mine used... and have used it in plenty of situations (orchestra, quintet (Bach fugues and Renaissance dances work well!), brass band and solo stuff too).


Do you find that you use it in the Eb configuration or D configuration the most? Do you feel that it is used in orchestral or chamber (quartet/quintet) situations more?


I probably use the Eb more. In the past year I’ve maybe used the D twice? I find myself using the instrument more in chamber settings (but most of what I do at the moment is chamber music) and some brass band whereas if I did more orchestral stuff I’d probably use it more!

The times I used the D were for orchestral things though...Britten Peter grimes (3rd part) and Brahms 2.

Hope this helps!
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuningbell470 wrote:
Hope this helps!


Yes! I am looking at a stomvi elite Eb trumpet and a B&S eXquisite Eb trumpet, but with only the Eb side. The stomvi has both bells and slides. Both these instruments are used.
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