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Returning Trumpet Player - Working through Books



 
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pyro
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:59 am    Post subject: Returning Trumpet Player - Working through Books Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am a returning trumpet player who hasn't played seriously in nearly twenty years. I hauled out my trumpet out of the closet with the intent to join a local community band. I bought several trumpet books with the intent to relearn the instrument from the basics. Those being:

Essential Elements for Band - Book 1 (Trumpet)
Standard of Excellence: Comprehensive Band Method - Book 1 & 2 (Trumpet)
Arban's Complete Conservatory Method for Trumpet

This last week I have focused on learning correct embouchure, posture and breathing. Mouthpiece buzzing and playing long notes between the range of low C through the 5th to G. Playing for about 20-30 minutes every day. My chops are definitely weak and I have minimum stamina which is to be expected.

My question is how should I work through these trumpet books? I know that it is recommended to only start Arban's once you can comfortably play high A above the bar. So I am more concerned about Essential Elements and Standard of Excellence. They are probably a little redundant as they are very similar. Should I work through two pages every week and progress through the book? Should I progress a page a day granted that I can play the page comfortably?

I want to make progress as efficiently as possible but I want to do it at a steady pace where I am not sacrificing good tone while trying to get through these books.

Thank you in advance for your time and insights.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Essential Elements and Standard of Excellence are pretty benign books. You can pretty much just play your way through the books, as is.

Regarding Arban, IMO it's not the easiest book to use without guidance. You can't just play your way through, front to back page. Since you've already got it, and if you want to give it a try, it would be very helpful to get Eric Bolvin's Arban Manual, which is a guide to organised playing through the book.
The Arban Manual
https://qpress.ca/product/arban-manual/

More convenient are two "methods" which are organised easiest to most difficult lessons. Self-contained and well-balanced lessons:

Mitchell on Trumpet
, Harold Mitchell
or
100 Progressive Lessons for Trumpet for the Beginning or Comeback Player, David Hickman
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There isn't a particular 'best path of study' regarding which exercises, etudes, or musical pieces that will be most effective and efficient. The books you have contain enough material for several years of practice and improvement.

What is 'best' is to make sure you are using good embouchure technique.
Two main parts of that are to avoid tightly stretched lips to 'squeeze out' high notes, and learning how to use reasonable rim pressure (that involves and is adjusted) between both the upper and lower lips. Too much rim pressure prevents the lip from being able to vibrate.

Oh, and don't try to force a buzz INTO the mouthpiece - you allow the trumpet to make your lips vibrate. Mouthpiece buzzing is a standalone 'physical exercise' for the muscles, it is not how to actually play.

If you watch any videos, mostly pay attention to SEEING what the player is actually doing with their embouchure. Verbal 'explanations' and 'theories' can often be incorrect or misunderstood.

The lips and aperture have to be adjusted and controlled to be capable of vibrating at the desired pitch when they are 'activated' by air being blown into the instrument.

Practicing slowly enough so that you are aware of the physical feelings of what works and what doesn't.
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pyro
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, and don't try to force a buzz INTO the mouthpiece - you allow the trumpet to make your lips vibrate. Mouthpiece buzzing is a standalone 'physical exercise' for the muscles, it is not how to actually play.



I watched a video by Charlie Porter on finding correct embouchure. It was very detailed and I follow the steps before playing. I also start blowing through the instrument then slowly tightening my aperture so that I can produce a sound. This was recommended in another Youtube video that I watched. To be honest, doing this I produce a great tone with the instrument already.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyro wrote:
... I also start blowing through the instrument then slowly tightening my aperture so that I can produce a sound. This was recommended in another Youtube video that I watched. To be honest, doing this I produce a great tone with the instrument already.

----------------------------
Yes, and by paying attention at the start of sound production to the 'posture' of your lips, embouchure, air pressure, etc. you learn and develop the habit (skill) of producing the sound on-time and accurately with minimal conscious thought. It also helps to be looking at the written note to reinforce the connection of the necessary physical response with 'seeing the note'.

It is not necessary to do a detailed analysis of the feelings that are associated with playing, just to have enough awareness so you can recreate, or detect when something is not quite right.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was your ability level when you put the trumpet into the closet?? If you were a proficient HS or college musician, for example, why don't you just start playing again? The two beginner books you mention are "class-type" methods which usually only progress as fast as the slower students. The books are designed primarily for students who don't work at home and learn only in the school class setting.

Personally, I would not recommend either of those for a student with any real motivation to play the trumoet at any age. If you were a competent player I'd think you'd be bored stiff after a day with either. If not, I'd have to figure that you are still, essentially, a beginner. In that case, see about hiring a tutor.

A better tact might be to go out and pick up some sort of pop music book for trumpet, where you are playing somewhat familiar tunes in an effort to regain your old chops, if you ever had them, What ever you do, concentrate on the tone/sound first and above all, breathe in, and as you progress try to gradually back off on the tension as the muscles learn to work together and you build some endurance. And stay out of the lower register (below the treble staff) or don't dwell there, so your lips don't end up being set there and cause you a hell of a time trying to increase your range. Its unlikely you'll be 'sacrificing good tone', so long as you are aware of your sound as you play.

Good luck, all the best to you.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's already got Essential Elements and Standard of Excellence, so might as well use them. You don't have to do a lesson a week. You can do four lessons a day (or more) until you've gone through them.
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pyro
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
What was your ability level when you put the trumpet into the closet?? If you were a proficient HS or college musician, for example, why don't you just start playing again? The two beginner books you mention are "class-type" methods which usually only progress as fast as the slower students. The books are designed primarily for students who don't work at home and learn only in the school class setting.


I played and performed for 10 years from 8 until 18 while I attended school. I got as high as grade 5 Royal Schools of Music. Im not a beginner but I know that I had several bad habits while I played and I always struggled with the high register because of incorrect embouchure. This is why I wanted a complete restart with a good foundation to build upon.

Quote:
It also helps to be looking at the written note to reinforce the connection of the necessary physical response with 'seeing the note'.


My music teacher was an advocate for this back in the day so Im always looking at the notes while I play with a metronome at the correct tempo.
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Denny Schreffler
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of things to try and ways to progress or to tread water, but I don't think that anyone could go wrong with the Irons book - "Twenty Seven Groups of Exercises." 

It can be purchased from  qPress.

♦ It's critically important to read and digest the first three pages before starting to play the exercises.

♦ Then, it's critically important to follow the directions on page four [The student should not go beyond page five until he can play these exercises as written — "as written" means perfectly — in one breath at a very slow tempo].

Being able to play Groups 1 - 4 PERFECTLY as described will take longer than one might think — believe me!  The notes are easy, the control is murder, but once you get it, it's a whole new world.

—Denny
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyro wrote:
... but I know that I had several bad habits while I played and I always struggled with the high register because of incorrect embouchure. ...

---------------------------
I didn't mention this earlier to avoid 'info overload', but I've written an article with 'my ideas' about embouchure function and concepts.

It is not intended to be a 'how to do it' method, but about the various physical controls and adjustments that are involved, and hopefully about how to avoid 'poor technique'.

At least, it will give you some idea of what gets discussed here on TH regarding embouchure and technique.
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found some online teachers and they really accelerated things. I think eventually there are a number of method books and they're helpful. The balance I tried for was a third exercises (scales, long tones, slurs), a third etudes, and a third a harder piece, but I varied it a lot also.

I think it's also good to be omnivorous. I found one of the real books (jazz standards) and played that. I also like hymns. I learned to transpose. I'm adding low brass. It's a great hobby.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back to trumpet playing! You asked how you should work through those books. A few thoughts.

First, your best bet at getting started right is to take lessons. If you take lessons, you'll work with the books your teacher recommends.

Second, if you are going to be working on your own, there are books that are better suited to independent study than the three you mentioned. Here are a few options:

- Harold "Pappy" Mitchell's four volume "Mitchell on Trumpet" is a series of 82 progressive comprehensive lessons that covers the bases well from beginner (returning player) to a very advanced level. It is the best all-in-one series I have come across.

- Bill Knevitt's "Getting Started Right" and "The Developing Trumpet Player" is another fine and reasonably comprehensive series of progressive lessons.

- Claude Gordon's "Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing" and David Hickman's "100 Progressive Lessons" work well together. Even better, add Lowell Little's "Embouchure Builder" to the mix for a comprehensive routine.

You could replace Hickman's book with the Arban method you already have and use Eric Bolvin's "The Arban Manual" to work your way progressively through Arban's method in conjunction with Gordon's "Physical Approach" (and Little's "Embouchure Builder).

Good luck!
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pyro
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
- Harold "Pappy" Mitchell's four volume "Mitchell on Trumpet...

- Bill Knevitt's "Getting Started Right" and "The Developing Trumpet Player" ...

- Claude Gordon's "Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing" and David Hickman's "100 Progressive Lessons" ...


Thank you so much for the book recommendations! Several people have recommended the Mitchell series. I will probably purchase those after working through the two books that I have. I will also take a look at the other three books you recommended.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pyro - you can get all four Mitchell books, bundled, from qpress and both/and hard copy or PDF over the internet. But if you don't want to buy the bundle, separate books I-IV are available, hard copy, as single volumes.
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Quadstriker
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just chime in to add that as a comeback player I've been using the Mitchell books as my primary progressive method over the last 2+ years and I have found it to be just what I was looking for.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyro wrote:

I watched a video by Charlie Porter on finding correct embouchure. It was very detailed and I follow the steps before playing. I also start blowing through the instrument then slowly tightening my aperture so that I can produce a sound. This was recommended in another Youtube video that I watched. To be honest, doing this I produce a great tone with the instrument already.

Are you talking about the video where he uses the handle of a pair of scissors as a makeshift mouthpiece visualizer and does that tuck-in move with the vermillion of the lips? Charlie is a solid player, if you find that way of forming an embouchure works for you great, it doesn't for me, at all. Watching other videos of his it's not obvious to me that that's how he normally forms his embouchure and sets the mouthpiece.

Whatever you work on do it with a focus on doing it cleanly, accurately with a solid sound. On YouTube you can find examples of Rafael Mendez playing Arban's exercises. Amazing to hear how clean, vibrant and clear he makes each note. Striving to do the same should make them interesting.

If what I've read of Harry James' background is accurate his father had him work on Arban's to exhaustion and strive to perfect the exercises. Given Harry's playing it clearly had a positive impact.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are you talking about the video where he uses the handle of a pair of scissors as a makeshift mouthpiece visualizer and does that tuck-in move with the vermillion of the lips? Charlie is a solid player, if you find that way of forming an embouchure works for you great, it doesn't for me, at all. Watching other videos of his it's not obvious to me that that's how he normally forms his embouchure and sets the mouthpiece.


I don't recommend that approach either. It is large on effort and excessively complex and "fiddly".

I don't recommend mouthpiece or free-buzzing either. Play the full instrument.
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