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Blueblue Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Posts: 104 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: Al Cass oil no longer available? |
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Al Cass oil no longer available? _________________ Van Laar B2 |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: |
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[edited to keep the moderators happy]
Al Cass is still available through Amazon, the Guitar Center Group outlets, etc.
WARNING: There is a company (the ethics of which have been challenged) trying to divert business to their imitation product sold in packaging made to look like Al Cass. They are also making false postings about Al Cass being out of business to fool customers their way.
This company first tried to buy them, then take the Al Cass name itself (without any right to per the coverage below), was blocked, and I see on their packaging is now using artwork that still looks like Al Cass.
Al Cass Inc. has filed suit against them.
Buy real Al Cass. This battle is costing them both in lost sales through people fooled, and now in legal fees.
https://www.telegram.com/news/20190519/milford-music-oil-company-sues-rival-alleging-branding-theft _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Blueblue Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Posts: 104 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:00 am Post subject: well.. |
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Well Al Cass is my long time favorite,
I don't know the influence of the scam, but it is not possible to buy it in the Netherlands anymore _________________ Van Laar B2 |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2149 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I just bought a new bottle of Al Cass. I've tried many other brands but always come back to this one. I also bought some Superslick slide grease. Just discovered these are the people Al Cass has sued. Wow. Moral dilemma. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: |
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spitvalve wrote: | I just bought a new bottle of Al Cass. I've tried many other brands but always come back to this one. I also bought some Superslick slide grease. Just discovered these are the people Al Cass has sued. Wow. Moral dilemma. |
Hetman and Schilke slide greases are similar if not the same. Schilke is 50-50 anhydrous lanolin and amber petroleum jelly. You can also buy the lanolin and cut it with a few drops of mineral oil to taste. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Al Cass is still in production and available in the US. It was brought on TH up a few months ago that it discontinued. I checked with some vendors and retailers in the course of my employment and it is not true.
I don't have any info about it's availability in the Netherlands or Europe in general.
I will also say that I used it for the greater part of 25 years. I've moved on to other oils that actually work better, last longer and also don't irritate - which is the reason I used Al Cass as opposed to Holton. Back in the 80's and 90's there weren't a ton of choices.
So, yeah - Yamaha, Ultra Pure or Hetman - one of those should be available in your area and are excellent - an improvement over Al Cass, in my book. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: |
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spitvalve wrote: | I just bought a new bottle of Al Cass. I've tried many other brands but always come back to this one. I also bought some Superslick slide grease. Just discovered these are the people Al Cass has sued. Wow. Moral dilemma. |
[edit] yup, looks like American Way Marketing, the company that tried to register the Cass name without paying for it now has control of SuperSlick - another great old name (at least among trombone players my age).
Sad.
Thanks to petenerch for the correction. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:18 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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petenerch Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2011 Posts: 200 Location: Groton, NY
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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It is actually Superslick who is producing the Al Cass reproduction. Both are available. Check out the link to see the photos (different typeset on the bottle, but identical at first glance).
Al Cass Original: https://www.hickeys.com/search/products/sku000246.php
One of the most popular brass oils ever, Al Cass "Fast" oil is super light for use on all tight or precision fitted valves.
• Use on pistons, rotors and axial-flow valves.
• Odorless
• 2 ounce bottle.
Superslick Fast Valve Oil: https://www.hickeys.com/search/products/sku122007.php
Modeled on one of the most popular brass oils ever, Superslick's "Fast" oil is super light for use on all tight or precision fitted valves.
• Use on pistons, rotors and axial-flow valves.
• Odorless.
• 2 ounce bottle. _________________ Peter Comerford
Alumnus: Northwestern Univ./Crane School of Music; Educational Specialist-Hickeys Music, Ithaca, NY. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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SuperSlick was a acquired by AWM, LLC, American Way Marketing LLC, in 1988. AWM is the company that Al Cass alleges to be stealing its brand after initially trying to buy the company in 2018.
Read the link in OSE’s post for more information. |
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BRSpringer Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Lee's Summit, MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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The owner of the store where I teach informed me today that St. Louis Music now has Al Cass in stock and he has ordered some. He hasn’t been able to get Al Cass for the store since last year. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: |
[edit] yup, looks like American Way Marketing, the company that tried to register the Cass name without paying for it now has control of SuperSlick - another great old name (at least among trombone players my age). |
Um, AWM has owned SuperSlick since 1988. |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2335 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I gave several bottles of Al Cass valve oil to a trumpet player living in Spain a year or two ago. He explained that it wasn't available in EU countries because it didn't have a child-safety cap. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
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It's true the that Ultra-Pure and Blue Juice had to redesign their bottles to comply with what I believe were EU restrictions. Maybe Yamaha did as well, though I am less sure of that.
Al Cass bottles, whether fresh from the vendor (I opened one within the last month) or not look the same as the ones I have from the late 80's.
nieuwguyski wrote: | I gave several bottles of Al Cass valve oil to a trumpet player living in Spain a year or two ago. He explained that it wasn't available in EU countries because it didn't have a child-safety cap. |
So, this may indeed be the case.
Seriously, try Yamaha, Hetman, or Ultra-Pure. All of them are better and non-irritating. It's 2019, you don't have to use an oil from the 1970's. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Seriously, try Yamaha, Hetman, or Ultra-Pure. All of them are better and non-irritating. It's 2019, you don't have to use an oil from the 1970's. |
So by that theory, you are saying don't buy a Bach Strad that originates in 1924, or a Schilke B that originates in 1956, or a Yamaha pro series that starts in 1968 ( all before your "1970s") , buy a Mendni, or an Oswal, or a EFDurand, as they are NEW.
Follow that logic if you wish, I'll stick with proven quality no matter how irritating to remove the cap isn't. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Seriously, try Yamaha, Hetman, or Ultra-Pure. All of them are better and non-irritating. It's 2019, you don't have to use an oil from the 1970's. |
OldSchoolEuph wrote: | So by that theory, you are saying don't buy a Bach Strad that originates in 1924, or a Schilke B that originates in 1956, or a Yamaha pro series that starts in 1968 ( all before your "1970s") , buy a Mendni, or an Oswal, or a EFDurand, as they are NEW.
Follow that logic if you wish, I'll stick with proven quality no matter how irritating to remove the cap isn't. |
It's true that not everything new is improved. Considering that both the horns I regularly use are from the 70's, I do acknowledge that.
As far as oil, I was the same as you. I used Al Cass from 5th grade until .... a few years ago. I was forced to use a thick synthetic on my Yamaha about 15 years ago because the valves ceased functioning with anything else. When you have to re-oil your valves 3 times in the middle of a symphony, then you have to consider options. But, I still used Al Cass on everything else and even cut my thick synthetic with it on my Yammie.
Then a few years ago, I buckled and gave Ultra-Pure a try on my Benge after cleaning it. It worked great - way better than Al Cass. When I gave that one a break and went to the Radial, it worked pretty well - better than Al Cass. I gave Yamaha Synthetic a whirl and the valves were flawless. My Benge is fine with either. Hetman seems equally good, but I've stuck mostly with Yamaha, now.
It's not that Ultra Pure and Yamaha are newer, it's just that they last longer and the valves are smoother and faster. In other words, better - lots better. They'll make those old trumpets (I've got plenty of those) better as well.
It's not the newer is better or that older is better. It's just that better is better. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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stevecass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 816 Location: Milford, Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry but to me, this is all quite the laugh. For so many reasons. If you saw my original post, great, at least my side is out there, but as another person said, perhaps the details should be lessened due to what is transpiring as we speak. The problem is, the post was JAM PACKED with details. I still want to leave it as I would boycott the oil for those reasons stated and taken down.
Last edited by stevecass on Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:22 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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mrhappy Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Posts: 371 Location: Port Jackson, NY
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Quite an epic story! _________________ MH |
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spach Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 424 Location: yazoo county, ms via northern calif. via central calif. via southern calif.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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All of this is so much foolishness since it's so easy to put together your own oil. _________________ WayneG
1925 (or '34) MEHA (#878**)(.460)(4 3/4" bell)(32.6 oz.)
"Where, then, does the soul reside with its better body while it awaits the sound of the trumpet?"--Stephen J. Gould |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Steve,
What a mess. Good luck going forward.
One thing you might consider is that your post with all the details might be unwise the way your mother has been acting. |
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stevecass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 816 Location: Milford, Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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mrhappy wrote: | Quite an epic story! |
My lawyer said it's not a court case, it's a movie.
Last edited by stevecass on Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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