Best Oil For New Horn- Tight Valves?

mrhappy

Hey Kids... Short Version: Picked up a 'new' horn with tight valves that plays fine with NO oil but when I use Al Cass Fast the valves hang up on return. What do you recommend? Would Hetman's 1 be a good choice??

Long Version: ... Picked up a DEG Signature (L.A version) that was NOS with a valve issue... Cleaned it out, etc... oiled it up and the 1st valve was hanging on the return. Brought it to a repair person who checked it out and said that the valve was a bit out of round. She sorted that out and tweaked up the rest of the horn/ slides/ felts. I picked it up at the shop and it felt GREAT and the valves seemed to work fine. She cleaned the horn but didn't oil the valves as she didn't know what oil I was using, recommending Hetman's 1 for the tight valve fit. Since I've been using Al Cass Fast on my other horns, I opted to stay with that.

Got home, oiled it up and the valve was now hanging up again! I pulled the valves and wiped off all the oil and also cleaned out the casing and lo and behold, the horn was playing fine with NO oil!!

So does Hetman's 1 seem like a good choice for these tight valves or is there something else I should try? Have been thinking about going synthetic anyway.

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MH

Croquethed · Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject:

Monster Doc's Juice is killer good for tight valves (2013 Getzen 900).

JayKosta · Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject:

My guess is that there isn't any type of valve oil will work, in the present condition.

To me it seems that -
1) there's still a small irregularity causing an area of 'extra small' clearance between the piston and the case.
2) the film thickness of the Cass oil is enough to make the #1 issue cause a 'sticking point'.
3) I doubt there's an oil that is 'light' enough to prevent sticking, and still provide useful lubrication.

If it were me (an OCD DIY'er), I'd remove the oil from the piston and casing, and then use 'magic marker' on the full area of the piston. Then carefully install the piston and do a few strokes. Remove the piston and try to see where the marker has rubbed off.
If a specific 'rub area' can be found, then return to the tech for a little 'attention'. Maybe 'spot lapping', or 'burnishing'. The marker on the piston can be removed with isopropl alcohol.

Jay
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zaferis · Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject:

Sounds to me like the valves, especially the first valve, is not close tolerance but rough, worn or misshaped. If it works at all being dry/no oil the clearance is not what is should be.

With funky valves, you can try various oils, and you may find one that works well - try thicker, regular and thinner - i.e. Ultra Pure has 3 viscosities of valve oil..
If you're looking for pure speed.. Blue Juice, Tromba T2 or "Fast". Yamaha Pro Synthetic..

BUT in my experiece funky, inconsistent valves don't gernerally or magically get better with one oil vs. another.

I suggest you get the valves worked on by someone that knows valves: Osmun Music, Dr Valve.. etc...
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mrhappy · Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject:

Brad361 · Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject:

mrhappy · Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:44 pm Post subject:

premature update.

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MH

scottfsmith · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:07 am Post subject:

I have fixed several such cases by just playing them in. If it is too annoying to play just grab the horn the next time you are watching TV and fiddle with the valves for an hour or whatever. Since you are not making sound you can also press while rotated which can help round things out. Some valves also can work through the bottom, another way to smooth off those bad spots. You can also push the stem on one side while depressing to send the valve in at an imperceptible angle. Sometimes you can find out one side push point causes it to stick more so just repeat 100x on that point.

If it is too much off this will take forever so there is no guarantee.
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Tpt_Guy · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject:

LittleRusty · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject:

Tpt_Guy · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject:

LittleRusty · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject:

I was thinking you interpreted that he was recommending cleaning.

Tpt_Guy · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject:

mrhappy · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: