endurance and age

[shoreman]

Is it possible to lose endurance and range as you get older? Since I turned seventy I've found this to personally be true.

[gstump]

Well, how many 50 year old starting pitchers in the MLB? 45 year old quarter backs in the NFL? Lung power reduces significantly. I am 73.
Trumpet is a physical activity.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump
_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student

[dghill1@charter.net]

Hi I have lost a note or two on the top end also some endurance. I think it is possible that we may play a little less as we age? However I think you can get it back it takes more work than it used to. I find I can't play as long phrases as before . George Hill

[HERMOKIWI]

I think that there's probably a point at which endurance/range diminishes due to the natural progression of aging. However, I don't think there is any age at which this is automatic. A lot depends on the strength of your fundamentals. The stronger your fundamentals the easier it is to play so it follows that strong fundamentals can extend your playing life considerably.
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HERMOKIWI

[Richard III]

[spitvalve]

I'm 62. I played for a living as a young man and had much more endurance than I do now, but I think it has less to do with age and more with practice time. I actually play more efficiently and have more range than I did then, but with practice limited to less than an hour per day due to other demands (family, work, etc) I don't have the endurance that I did in my twenties.

I like to think that if I could put in the time now that I did back then, especially with what I know now, I could play circles around my younger self. If, if, if.
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Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[Rod Haney]

At age 17 I could sustain a loud hi c for well over a minute. I can do it for about 30 seconds now. At age 67 it’s hard to pick up (remember) tunes by playing them after a few trips thru, at one time it wasn’t. I used to be able to hear a tune and know the starting notes and more or less the key, that’s not possible with my ears anymore. I know that some have been able to hold their own and learn new stuff, but a 45 year layoff cooked that turkey. I could go on but that’s the theme, either aging or being away too long took a real toll. I’m sure if my attitude about playing had not changed with time, I simply would not fool with something I thought my chances of being at least adequate to play what I used to play were so remote. Now I just play stuff I like and practice on my many shortcomings. I think a lot of comeback players who were pretty good once upon a time have to examine their expectations and become more realistic as a they realize that time has marched on. It’s just life.
Rod

[blbaumgarn]

I ended up getting a degree in phy ed after several years out of college in the early 70s. What is said about the body is true for musicians, and trumpet players. As we age, no matter how much discipline is given to stay in shape we lose elasticity in the muscles. This is true of the larger muscle groups and most certainly true of the facial muscles, too. Also, we lose, by degrees the ability to force air from the lungs and take in the volume we could as younger people. It isn't fatal, just something we have to adjust to. The embouchure can be developed again, though never to the level it was when we were younger. I have a friend, a life long trumpet player, who said his father felt that his best playing was after he turned 58 and into his sixties. He also said that he felt this was true because he had been successful and was able to retire at 57 so he could indulge his desire to play trumpet again. He had the time to practice again. We can still do things when we get older. Developing muscles and skills again also involves the skills we learned in life when young.
_________________
"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[gabriel127]

Everyone declines with age, but the more you keep the body in shape and the less you think about declining, the better off you'll be.

Do not go gentle into that good night. Refuse to give in. Practice more. Show those young punks that you can still kick their entitled little trophy-expecting butts.

[spitvalve]

[Mike Sailors]

Have you heard Randy Brecker lately? He sounds stronger than ever and he's 73.
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www.mikesailors.com

[Seymor B Fudd]

.

[spitvalve]

Snooky Young was still playing lead in his late 80's.
Then there's Doc Severinsen, still tearing it up and turning 92 next week. Honestly not playing like in his prime, but his prime lasted well into his 70's.

And kudos to you, Mr. Fudd. I hope I can be like you when I grow up.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[DaveH]

It seems to me that it probably is a matter of extent and degree, affecting different people in different ways, and at different times.

All people age; the impact of the process may vary in terms of extent, time, and degree.

[Brad361]

[JoseLindE4]

In most fields that require a high level of performance, our physical and mental sharpness starts to decline pretty young - by our mid 30s. Our cognition slows, our recovery slows, and we just get weaker overall. The good news is that we also continue to gain a experience in whatever it is that we do. For trumpet playing this means that even though we may find our body and mind declining, we know more and function more efficiently. We can also slow the decline by taking care of ourselves. Think about Doc who could still probably take any of us in a fight and still plays circles around most living trumpet players.

So our physical and mental capacity for endurance probably starts slipping pretty early (mid 30s) but we can overcome that decline for sometimes decades by functioning more efficiently. There’s certainly a point where the ever increasing efficiency can’t overcome our declining capacity, but that seems to vary widely. Think about the athletes who aged gracefully with good old man games vs the guys who faded as soon as they lost a step.

[blbaumgarn]

Of the two I have heard recently on YouTube, Doc and Ack Van Rooyen amaze me. And yes, they did and probably still do the practice thing. Doc still has that edge to his sound and Ack is just buttery smooth on the flugelhorn. There are many examples in music of people that still have it in their senior years. And thanks for that.
_________________
"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[Denny Schreffler]

Everything changes as we "age" but there is a lot of individuality and variability.

Much of what we depend on to play the trumpet that changes with age can be compensated for or re-balanced in our set-up and our equipment.

Lip anatomy and histology doesn't get much discussion in the forums (thankfully), and some of what I've seen has not been accurate, but here are some bullets about aging lips from a jaw/face plastic surgery journal.

Lots happening with the soft tissue and structural changes!!

-Denny


Originally Published
PMFA NEWS VOLUME 4 ISSUE 2 DEC/JAN 2017

Anatomy of the ageing lip 
By Sotirios Foutsizoglou


Chronological lip changes

Maxilla

• Maxillary retrusion in both dentate and edentulous individuals.
• Maxilla rotates clockwise.
• Decrease in the maxillary angle and height leading to posterior positioning of the lip and deepening of the nasolabial folds (NL).
Mandible
• Height of ramus and mandibular body length decrease with age.
• Loss of mandibular volume contributes towards laxity of platysma.
• Mandibular angle increases. This may result in blunting of jawline definition.
The dentition
• Chronological tooth wear results in flattening of the incisal edges affecting the smile arc.
• Tooth loss causes alveolar ridge resorption and cortical bone loss leading to decreased anterior lip projection (lips look thinner and inverted).
• Dentures affect the position of soft tissues and lips.

Soft tissue changes

• Epidermal thinning with flattening of the dermal-epidermal junction.
• Loss of collagen and elastin leading to reduced elasticity of skin.
• Reduction in glycosaminoglycans leading to water loss and dry skin.
• Reduction in soft tissue volume, elasticity and repeated perioral muscle activity leading to perioral rhytids.
• Perioral fat compartments become lipodystrophic and ptotic.

Structural lip changes

• Upper lip loses its volume, lengthens and inverts.
• Lower lip becomes thinner and rolls inward.
• The intercommissural width becomes smaller.
• Commissures drop.
• Decreased display of the maxillary anterior teeth.
• Exposure of mandibular anterior teeth increases.
• Philtrum columns flatten and ‘splay’ as they approach the upper vermillion border.
• Vermillion border becomes thinner.
• Partial loss of Cupid’s bow.
• Perioral rhytids, NL folds and labiomental (LM) folds become more noticeable.
• Curves of the lips are lost.
• Lips become more dry.

[Irving]

Thanks. That's almost a months worth of excuses that I can tell the conductor!

[Seymor B Fudd]