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Lisp problems



 
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thomasjet123
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Joined: 10 Feb 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:42 am    Post subject: Lisp problems Reply with quote

Hi all

I am currently struggling with my double tonguing and can't triple tongue. This is partially due to the roof of my mouth being lower than it should be, giving my tongue less room to move (hence the reason i have a lisp).

I have been practising double tonguing for about a year now and can kind of do it but my single tongue is way faster so its not worth using. However i could do with it for pieces i'm working on like the Timofei Dokschizer cadenza in the Arutjunjan.

Does anyone have any idea of how i can work around my problem?

Thanks
Thomas
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geigerjt
New Member


Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend just practicing the K tongue by itself. There's some good exercises in Allen Vizzutti's Method Book (technical studies book) and a good explanation on tonguing in Clarke's Characteristic Studies (not the technical studies). Of course, Arban's exercises on multiple tonguing are more than enough.

Also, if your single tongue is fast that should be helping triple tongue if you're going T T K, maybe just trying it a little slowly for focus and clarity. Good luck and have fun!
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nothing quite as frustrating as working on K-tonguing. It will make you feel worse than a rank amateur, and it doesn't appear to get better for a long time. I would have sworn that I had made no progress at all after months of regular practice. Then one day I was working on an etude and it all began to fall into place.

Do the work. I recommend Clarke Technical Studies with alternate tonguing models.
- Slurred all
- Single-tongue all
- Slur two, tongue two
- K-tongue all
- Double tongue all
- Triple tongue all
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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2630

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lisp is usually caused by the front of the tongue being tied, or somewhat tied, to the floor of the mouth by a web-like tissue (frenulum) that should have been snipped within a day or so after a baby is born. Doctors look for this so the child will not develop speech problems later.

I have never heard of a lisp caused by a low roof of the mouth, but I suppose anything is possible. If you haven't consulted with a medical doctor about the speech problem to be 100% certain that the slow double-tonguing is caused by a low roof, you might check with one. Some adults get the frenulum clipped to free up the movement of the tongue, which might really help your trumpet playing. Sounds gruesome, I know, but it may be the only way to cure the problem if this is the actual cause. If a low roof is the real cause, I have no idea what might be done to help.

Seems to me that if single-tonguing is going well, double and triple-tonguing should be able to work well, too, with the guidance of a really good trumpet teacher. Single, double, and triple tonguing should all be articulated in the same general area.

Dave Hickman
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpt.hick wrote:
A lisp is usually caused by the front of the tongue being tied, or somewhat tied, to the floor of the mouth by a web-like tissue (frenulum) that should have been snipped within a day or so after a baby is born. Doctors look for this so the child will not develop speech problems later.
...
Some adults get the frenulum clipped to free up the movement of the tongue, which might really help your trumpet playing. Sounds gruesome, I know, but it may be the only way to cure the problem if this is the actual cause.

FWIW I have a friend who in his 30s had his frenulum clipped. He wasn't a horn player, nor did he have a lisp. He just wanted to be able to stick his tongue out further to improve his kissing and related activities. Yes, I'm serious. Later he commented that it was to worst and most painful thing he'd ever done. I didn't ask if it acheived his desired objectives.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
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Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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harryjamesworstnightmare
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be the ball.

www.rogerrocco.net

Read it all. Your answer is on his blog.
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