Question to you Guys! (how is these ornament notes called?)

freshdax · Regular Member Joined: 16 Aug 2012 Posts: 35

Hi,

how would you call the trill-like technique in the high trumpet(s)?? (possibly in other voices as well) which for instance occurs at 0:20 and 0:24??

https://youtu.be/vuaXbIhqMpQ?t=20s

...also important: how would such a gesture usually written out in the score? Maybe with the grupetto sign? (I'm actually not sure if it even is a gruppetto nor if this word is common in world of jazz)

cheers,
Freshdax

furcifer · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject:

Well, I've heard it called a "turn" or even a "gliss" in jazz circles, and like most things in jazz, neither is going to be any more accurate than calling it a "grupetto", although if you said that around real cats, they'd ask, "What does Pinocchio's old man have to do with anything?" (*rimshot*)

Such things aren't usually written out, either. Jazz is nothing if not about increasing the latitude of individual interpretation from the written notes. Playing jazz is more about listening to what has gone before us than reading written instructions. When working with inexperienced players, having them listen to "examples of" what is desired is far better than trying to meticulously write everything out. This is why "swung" eighth notes don't need to be written out as alternating 2+1 barred triplets.

It's the Lead Trumpet's prerogative, if not the jazz trumpet player's prerogative in general. I've heard entire sections do such things without any prompting on a first-read. Knowing where to put a shake or a "cha" is more of a stylistic choice, and part of what makes a lead player who he is as opposed to some other cat. Most prefer it that way, and wouldn't appreciate so much being written out for them.
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trpthrld · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4808

It's called a "flip." Just a quick flip of the tongue to get the next higher partial and then land on the note lower than the one you start the flip off of. Sometimes it might be down to a note lower, but the tongue action is the same.

It's a very slight / small movement of the tongue. Best practiced at softer dynamics.
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furcifer · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject:

dstdenis · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:18 am Post subject:

I just finished playing trumpet 2 in the pit orchestra for a run of Catch Me If You Can, which is written in this style and has lots of flips. It's used to transition to a note that's usually down a minor third, for example, from F at the top of the staff to the D right below. The effect is that you break higher off the starting note before coming back down to land on the lower note in tempo.

If the starting note is high enough, like in the fifth partial or higher, you can flex the embouchure and raise the tongue a bit to make the note break higher before landing on the lower note. Lower than that, however, and I had to use the valves to break off the higher note so that the figure would match the shape of the pattern that the guy was playing on the trumpet 1 part. When valving, I smeared through it a bit to match the style of the trumpet 1 part.

In this book, the flip was notated with a turn symbol, a.k.a., grupetto. I've also seen it notated in jazz charts with something that looks like a handwritten line that goes up then down.
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trpthrld · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4808

Hera ya go with written & playing example:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHw7AhuQoBw
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trpthrld · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4808

Another way to indicate it. This is the mark you get when using the Jazz font in Finale:

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freshdax · Regular Member Joined: 16 Aug 2012 Posts: 35

thanks to you all, sharing your wisdom!
Highly appreciated!

freshdax · Regular Member Joined: 16 Aug 2012 Posts: 35

trpthrld · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4808

dstdenis · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:33 am Post subject:

freshdax · Regular Member Joined: 16 Aug 2012 Posts: 35

dstdenis · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:40 am Post subject:

freshdax · Regular Member Joined: 16 Aug 2012 Posts: 35

thank you!

I'm afraid I'll never play a flip, simply as I don't play trumpet, but only piano. (at a proffessional grade). So if you got any piano regarded questions, just hand them over to me!

Also I'm a proffessional music composer/arranger as well, and you have provided some good info all through the years, as it's not always easy from a pianists/composers perspective, and I wrote quite some tracks with live trumpets. Thanks for that & Trumpets for the win!

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 am Post subject: