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Consistent and Effective Range FAST


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GTRPT
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Consistent and Effective Range FAST Reply with quote

Hello fellow trumpeters,
this fall I will be a sophomore in high school and playing lead trumpet for marching season. This show requires that leads play an intimidating high D which I have played before, but not nearly as consistently as will be needed. Marching obviously takes a large toll on ones chops due to the constant repetition, and being able to play a high D one day a month probably won't cut it if I want to keep my position. By effective range, I basically mean usable range that will feel nearly effortless or at least require minimal pressure.


My highest consistent note currently is a high A which I can typically play with little pressure. Most days of the week, however, I do have a clean high C (although I struggle with intonation). I am very familiar with air pressure as I study with a very talented professional, however I would love to hear new perspectives or studies that might help me. Marching season is only a month away, and I would like to at least have a consistent C by then, although this might not be too realistic.



Thank you so much, and let me know if you have any questions that could potentially help me solve this issue.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully, nothing here that your teacher hasn't already coached you on.. "fast" solution? Not going to happen.

Try a couple things-1st reset your mind-set, so that the 3rd space C is your middle ground - play that C very relaxed with the effort of "I can roll out of bed and play this note all day long" Easy, stress free, mp-p. Being your daily routine there, lips slurs, scales, flow studies-whatever, all centering on that C.

Then, to help gain the "feel".. play a nice relaxed, centered G (top of the staff) - bend it down and find that sweet spot. Keep it soft and relaxed. Then play that G alternate fingering 1-3 .. as it's centered and relaxed slur chromatically up to a C (1-3, 2-3, 1-2, 1, 2, 0) - all you're doing is sliding up the same overtone series-like pulling a trombone slide from 6th to 1st position without changing your chops (keep the energy up and moving forward). The idea is to get that C to roll out as easily as the G. Once you sit on it for a moment, release and re-start that C - trying to do it with the same relaxed "feel".
Then as that happens, do the same thing on an A (play the A-alt fingering 1-3 - yes you can!), "slide" up chromatically to an open D.

Then, be sure that you're practicing wisely, building a routine that includes fundamentals (tone, articulations, flexibility, range,) everyday, p-mp scales/Clarke Studies-a lot, 50% on %50 off, short sessions more often, stop before you play on fatigued chops, reinforcing good habits, gained skills, and addressing weaknesses.

"If mom says you sound good practicing, you're probably practicing the wrong stuff."

During the MB season, don't overblow, play within yourself, a tight controlled sound will be stronger, better in tune and carry more outside anyway. And warm down - soft and slow.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, welcome to TH, there is a lot of good information here,
Zaferis above makes some great suggestions.

Second, be realistic. If you have been putting in the practice time that’s required to really progress on trumpet, great. If you really have not, you’re not going to make up for that in a few months. But that absolutely doesn’t mean that you should be discouraged, or that it’s “ too late”, TALK TO YOUR TEACHER, he/she should be able to help you with a realistic plan to accomplish what you want/need. There are no shortcuts. PRACTICE, practice correctly (again, talk to your teacher), be sure he/she understands what you’re trying to accomplish, and oh yeah, PRACTICE.😉 Don’t fall into the trap of trying to do on the marching band field what you really are not ready for, trying to “be a hero” can result in chronic embouchure fatigue, OR WORSE.
You’re going into only your second year of high school, I totally get that you want to “keep your spot”, but if the range that the show requires is simply too much for you now, better to switch to a second part (which is just as important to the overall sound of an ensemble as the first part) until you’re really ready. No one here can tell you if you’re ready or not, we cannot hear/see you play, TALK TO YOUR TEACHER.

Best of luck, stick around the forum here, let us know how things go!

Brad
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you have a reliable high D and so on, your chops are in a completely different place than when you're where you are right now with a reliable A assuming you actually do have a high A you can play basically in your sleep. What you have to do physically feels different, the neurological feedback loop is different. If you don't *know* you can nail the note at will, you don't have it yet. You describe it as "intimidating" which I understand completely - it seems that way now, but when you get to where you really own the note it won't seem intimidating.

To have a given note in your back pocket generally means you can at least get to some notes above it.

As others have stated developing it fast is unlikely to happen, usually it's incremental.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off - I agree with the advice and comments made earlier.

NOW, (based on my limited experience) you should talk with your instructor about mouthpiece pressure in DETAIL. And specifically how the pressure is balanced between your upper and lower teeth/lips, and how the position of the lower jaw is used. Also talk about chest/abdomen muscle usage, tongue position, and NOT constricting your throat.

You might have to consciously move your lower jaw slightly forward for higher notes to apply more pressure onto the lower teeth/lip - and thereby lessen the pressure on the upper lip to allow it more freedom to vibrate.

The mouthpiece size also makes a difference - especially if you're using one with a large rim diameter with the goal of having an 'orchestral sound'.

Jay
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JJMDestino
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good upper register is a by-product of playing the trunpet fundamentally well. First, I have to ask a few questions. Do you have a consistent practice routine? Are you spending time working on fundamentals? What are you practicing in the upper register? Who is your sound model for the trumpet? Who is your sound model for playing in the upper register? Do you know how you want to sound?

Next, you have to reprogram your thinking. A “D” above the staff isn’t high. A high c isn’t high and I encourage you to rename it c above the staff. In my opinion the high resister doesn’t start until the second g above the staff. So often I see players, young and experienced, approach playing the trumpet very differently once the ledger lines start to appear, especially starting to blow very hard.

Remember, a trumpet mouthpiece throat is pretty small. It will only take so much air. We only have to excite the air that is already in the Horn. Take a warm and full breath and immediately deliver it the same way. Don’t give into bad habits, like hammering and muscling.

Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither is a great upper register. That being said, you can make some pretty quick progress with focused practice.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick question, since I would probably just be duplicating what has already been said:

@ zaferis - since his high C is not as consistant as his high A, wouldn't it be more reliable to use the same concept but with the A instead of a C?

@GTRPT - that's one of the most literate and clear posts from someone of your age (and in some cases, older) I've read. It will serve you well. Good on ye.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Sun May 26, 2019 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m sort of wondering if the OP is still with us on all of this, no responses since his original post.

Brad
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much do you practice?
What do you practice?
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Avan
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
I’m sort of wondering if the OP is still with us on all of this, no responses since his original post.

Brad


If he is gone, maybe nobody gave him the secret to High Consistent FAST RANGE !!

Come on guys.................

Share your secret...................



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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

O.K. Double High C in 37 Weeks.

(And 37 weeks is short in trumpet playing time.)
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
How much do you practice?
What do you practice?


If the OP has bailed, it doesn’t matter, but THIS ^ .

Brad
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GTRPT
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for all of your recommendations. I've been experimenting with most of them over the past couple of weeks. I now understand that it's almost a joke for me to ask for "fast range".

To answer some of your questions:
I do in fact practice a consistent half an hour on the horn every day where I cover scales, slurs, music for upcoming events (church, all-state etc.) and range.
In the upper register I currently use Stamp's technique of slurring down to the pedal, then arpeggiating into the high note.
My sound model is Maurice Andre.

Thanks again for all of the assistance. I have NOT BAILED on all of you and appreciate the great things that more experienced players have offered.
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GTRPT wrote:
Thank you so much for all of your recommendations. I've been experimenting with most of them over the past couple of weeks. I now understand that it's almost a joke for me to ask for "fast range".

To answer some of your questions:
I do in fact practice a consistent half an hour on the horn every day where I cover scales, slurs, music for upcoming events (church, all-state etc.) and range.
In the upper register I currently use Stamp's technique of slurring down to the pedal, then arpeggiating into the high note.
My sound model is Maurice Andre.

Thanks again for all of the assistance. I have NOT BAILED on all of you and appreciate the great things that more experienced players have offered.


I would suggest over the summer to build that practice session up from thirty minutes to at least an hour and a half. Thirty minutes is just to maintain what you have. To build on it, you need to put in more time daily. Same stuff, just more of it. Be sure you rest between exercises as long as you play. The goal is not to beat your chops to pieces, but to develop flexibility, consistency, and to a certain degree, embouchure strength, though it's more a matter of balance and coordination than brute strength. If you have a teacher, good on you. If you don't, it wouldn't hurt to mow a few lawns weekly to pay for one.
Good luck!
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GTRPT wrote:
Thank you so much for all of your recommendations. I've been experimenting with most of them over the past couple of weeks. I now understand that it's almost a joke for me to ask for "fast range".

To answer some of your questions:
I do in fact practice a consistent half an hour on the horn every day where I cover scales, slurs, music for upcoming events (church, all-state etc.) and range.
In the upper register I currently use Stamp's technique of slurring down to the pedal, then arpeggiating into the high note.
My sound model is Maurice Andre.

Thanks again for all of the assistance. I have NOT BAILED on all of you and appreciate the great things that more experienced players have offered.


He’s baaaa-ccck! Just kidding.😉

It sounds like you’re trying to cover many of the bases, but.....hate to say it....30 minutes per day is certainly better than less than that, but frankly (as Bryan above mentioned), for most people it’s simply not enough. I just don’t think it’s possible to cover everything that’s needed in thirty minutes. You now realize that “fast range” is next to impossible, great, but thirty minutes daily will likely not, in my opinion, get you there. When I was about your age, I really increased my practice time (to three hours EVERY DAY during the school year, five during summers) and that’s when my range and overall technique began to really improve.

Not trying to be negative or discouraging here, but also trying to be realistic. Try increasing your practice time, if you’re practicing correctly I believe you’ll see much better results.

Brad
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JVL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When i was in conservatory, 30 years ago, the jazz bass teacher, around 60 y.o, could take whatever horn with whatever mpc (we all played Bach 1 1/2C) and without warm up, with no practice at all, could SCREAM til high B or above...
just because a trumpet player, perhaps one of the great he played with (i regret now not to have asked him who he was), during his pro career, had showed him some breathing technic.

Sometimes, high range and power have nothing to do with practice. Different matters...
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you don't believe that some muscular strength must accompany embouchure development? Serious question, not being sarcastic..
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GTRPT
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kehaulani"]So, you don't believe that some muscular strength must accompany embouchure development? Serious question, not being sarcastic..[/quote]
I personally believe (from my very few years of trumpet experience) that range development is based on your embouchure. I believe this because I have friends, who although aren't the best, can play easy high Cs when they practice one day a week. Please feel free to critique my understanding of this concept!
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JVL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello Kehaulani
yes it does need muscular strength, embouchure development, but not only : it needs also coordination, air pivots, vibration, air, abdominal support etc.

I just gave this example, which is rather unique for what i personally know and have seen, to answer about the practice consideration with high range.

But high range is only one item, and is not enough for a pro career or musical abilities.
I add that i'd never recommend to somebody not to practice. And again, that teacher's ability was rather unique. Most of us have to practice everyday.
One thing is screaming notes for 30 seconds, and another thing is play a concerto or a lead book.
My reply has to be considered in the High range development forum index, and would have been different in some aspects in another index such as fundamental, mouthpieces etc.
best
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