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Music theory workbook for trumpet players?



 
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:34 am    Post subject: Music theory workbook for trumpet players? Reply with quote

I have tried to learn more than the almost-zero music theory I know now several times in my life.. I read a music theory book, remember some stuff for a few weeks, transfer almost none to my playing, then forget it all. So I think the only way I am going to learn is to play it.

I am working with my teacher on learning some basics by analyzing the pieces I am playing but having a workbook of stuff written out would really help: basically the definitions of the standard stuff for reference (intervals, chords, inversions, progressions, etc) plus lots of examples to play on trumpet and even some exercises to try. I have a few books already that have some of that kind of stuff in it but they don't cover all the music theory basics. One example book is Rich Willey's Jazz Improv Materials Handbook. It covers the scale degrees by numbers and intervals pretty well but when it gets to chords and progressions it assumes you already know them. There are books covering particular styles like blues, etc but I don't want to learn a style, I just want to learn standard music theory.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'D like to learn regarding playing trumpet melody line is how and when to do the 'key changes', and the various styles (blues, jazz, pentatonic, etc.) .

For my trumpet playing, the overall 'standard music theory' is just too much to handle.

Just had a 'thought' ... I'm going to try using the Arban 'Chord of the Dominant/Diminished 7th' section as a guide. And every few measures JUMP to another line (key) - e.g. from C to G to E, using the measures where the interval from the last note to the first of next makes sense.

Thoughts or suggestions about something similar / better ?

Jay
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a bunch of theory texts, natch. For something different and more trumpet-specific, our own Rich Willey has a number of books with exercises to work you through various keys and such on his Boptism web site. Chase Sanborn has a large theory book or two as well. Both are players so provide tunes and text "from the trenches".
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of Rich Willey's books (mentioned in my post above) and looking at his other books none really goes through all the basics. For chords he has II-V-I books but I want all the chords. Still his book does have good stuff in it and I am going to start working through it until I find something better.

John Daniel's Special Studies is another book I have, it has some nice chord exercises but it is not a tutorial, I don't know what chords I am playing.

For Chase Sanborn I see a book called Jazz Tactics ... that looks like the closest one to being a theory book? Sounds like it could be good, any experiences with it?

Hey here is a book that sounds sort of similar to the Sanborn book which is free - http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FQBK-handbook.pdf -- Aebersold. It has too much jazz focus but it has plenty of basic stuff and some exercises.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is excellent: Understanding-Fundamentals-Music-Robert-Greenberg
Search for it online.

Also: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1883217040/ezvid02-20
which stresses ear training - to me a n extremely critical aspect of learning theory.

Also excellent: https://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-Step-Step-Understanding/dp/1986061833/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=music+theory+and+harmony&qid=1565967357&s=books&sr=1-3

A book which discusses the physics and mathematical underpinnings of music and which can really help consolidate one's basic understanding of music is Arthur Benade's Horns, Strings, and Harmony

I suggest reading it first.

I also cannot stress enough the value of studying the piano.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps more than anything else in theoretical analysis is to know your harmonic context. Are you able to take a piece of music and identify where the cadences and half cadences are and how they are led up to and away from?
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue is right at the start of the OP. Remember and then forget it all. Sorry, but this is the BASIC language of music we are talking about. One NEEDS to know it, and not just have read but have a deep understanding, with this information internalised and on hand all the time.

For those who do not have this knowledge, this is the place to start. We don't learn a language by not learning its words. Music theory is this in the language of music.

My suggestion would be to go back, reread and work through this information. Apply it to your music immediately, apply it to you NEXT piece before you even think of attempting to play it. Get used to thinking in the language of music.

Then, it won't be forgotten.

cheers

Andy
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andy. What you are saying is pretty much what my teacher said and I agree that's what I have to do. Just looking for some exercises to make it a bit easier.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottfsmith wrote:
Thanks Andy. What you are saying is pretty much what my teacher said and I agree that's what I have to do. Just looking for some exercises to make it a bit easier.
I am convinced it is more a task of listening than playing. The brain-ear connection is what needs training. Exercises, therefore, should be focused on listening. It may be helpful to find another player and play intervals and chords (arpeggiated on the horn, or played on the keyboard) for the other to decipher. There are ear training websites which will play intervals, etc, you getting to respond with what you think they are. I don't think there are any useful exercises that you can play on your trumpet to develop this.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
The issue is right at the start of the OP. Remember and then forget it all. Sorry, but this is the BASIC language of music we are talking about. One NEEDS to know it, and not just have read but have a deep understanding, with this information internalised and on hand all the time.

For those who do not have this knowledge, this is the place to start. We don't learn a language by not learning its words. Music theory is this in the language of music.

My suggestion would be to go back, reread and work through this information. Apply it to your music immediately, apply it to you NEXT piece before you even think of attempting to play it. Get used to thinking in the language of music.

Then, it won't be forgotten.

cheers

Andy


This.

Brad
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://valdez.dumarsengraving.com/PDFmusic/Berkleeharmony/Harmony1.PDF.

You can see if that is what you need. There are three follow-on segments: Harmony2.PDF, Harmony3.PDF and Harmony4.PDF. I trust you are resourceful enough to find them when you need them. Good luck.
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Martin Committee
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
http://valdez.dumarsengraving.com/PDFmusic/Berkleeharmony/Harmony1.PDF.
... I trust you are resourceful enough to find them when you need them. Good luck.

---------------------------------
Aye matey - a treasure map to the spoils .

google dumarsengraving.com
or better site:valdez.dumarsengraving.com

Jay
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. The original site worked for me, but not now.
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis." Chet Baker

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Martin Committee
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am reading through Craig Fraedrich's book Practical Jazz Theory for Improvisation. It contains a lot of basic music theory. PDF versions of the book go for about $15. I own the Levine Jazz Theory book and one by Hal Crook. I feel this one is the most "practical" and easiest to understand.

http://craigfraedrichmusic.com/educational-materials/
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'll keep Fraedrich in mind. For now I'm finding stuff in my Rich Willey book and this free Aebersold book that I mentioned above to get me started at least. The Aebersold book is just a bunch of random stuff glued together but it has some great info. For example page 22 lists various well-known tunes and their initial intervals. You can use that to check your ear against what interval you hear and help to learn to recognize new intervals by ear. The Rich Willey book I am now working on this Chet Baker exercise where you play various numbered intervals through all the keys .. e.g. 1351 means C E G C in C, then go around all the keys doing the same intervals. Then do another, e.g. 1771. It is good at making me focus on keys and intervals in my head, not lines and circles on a page.

Those Berklee books look like a good practical guide to music theory, but not the kind of play-it workbook I am looking for. Still I grabbed 'em and will use them as a reference, thanks.

EDIT: OK I decided to grab the Fraedrich pdfs (both the book and the workbook). They are excellent! Lots on chords in particular, and the workbook has many playing exercises. It is a bit too jazz-focused for me but that is a quibble.
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