What to look for when choosing a new (professional) trumpet

[AkshayB]

I don't know if anyone saw my last post about getting a used professional horn, but I managed to successfully get the 2 I was looking for the Yamaha YTR-8335RGS Xeno and the Bach 180S37 Stradivarius. I tried them both it out and it was really hard to decide. The Bach's valves are AMAZING but the tuning slide is really, really hard to move. The Yamaha's first valve slide is hard to move but the sound on the Yamaha is slightly better than the Bach's when I play it. The Yamaha's valves are slightly slower than the Bach's but not by a lot. The finishes on both trumpets are fantastic and no differences there. To make this a little simpler in what order are these properties of the trumpet by importance, slides, valves, or sound? Also is there anything else I can try to see which one is better for me?

[Ed Kennedy]

Tight slides can be dealt with by any good brass tech. I would lap them and check the alignment. Valves can be lapped if too tight (or you can play them in) and you can change springs, stronger or weaker. those are mere mechanical considerations.

How does it sound? (Does one have a more pleasing sound to you than the other?) How does it respond? How are articulations? How even is it from top to bottom? Do you have the chops to tell the difference? Be honest, pick the horn you like, they are both good all-around choices.

[Crazy Finn]

[zaferis]

What Crazy Finn wrote!

Except i'll disagree with the statement that Yamaha's QT is higher than Bach.. that depends.. I've seen this go both directions. An old stereotype of Bach from the era of auto union workers in the Bach Shop - they still made great instruments but some of the QT slipped (mid 80's to about 2002). But I could point out that Yamaha has similar periods of poor quality.. Early Yamaha valves sucked, had many issues
Yamaha tends to make a model for 3, 4 or 5 years then "redesign" it making the next gen. some better, some worse.
I think in general Bach uses better quality base materials.. quality of brass, etc.

AND IT IS about sound, sound in the performance arena -> in the rooms and ensembles that you'll be in. This is where, IMO, Bach holds the edge-just holds together a tick better and provides a bit more feedback to the player.

Side by side, you'll have to pick which speaks better to you and your ears.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[shofarguy]

If both horns have mechanical problems, then determining which sounds "better" won't necessarily be accurate. Stress from misalignment, corrosion, or clearances that are too tight or too loose will all potentially affect how the horn resonates.

Find a horn with good mechanics.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[HERMOKIWI]

In terms of mechanics the valves are, by far, the most important part of a trumpet. Mechanical problems with valves can be difficult and expensive to fix. In contrast, issues with slides are relatively easy to fix.

What draws my attention most is your statement that "...the sound on the Yamaha is slightly better than the Bach's when I play it." What, exactly, does that mean? What is "better?" How do you define that? What is the criteria? Are you talking about the sound from the player's end of the horn or from the audience's end of the horn? If it's from the audience's end of the horn at what distance or distances? Are the acoustics of the particular room favoring one instrument over the other? If so, how?

The quality of sound is highly subjective. The fact that a player likes the sound at the player's end of horn #1 better than the sound at the player's end of horn #2 doesn't necessarily carry over to the audience's end of the horn. A better test is to play the horn in front of some experienced players and let them comment. Even under the best circumstances, however, there is always going to be some built in bias reflected in the opinions.

Keep in mind that you can change the sound to some extent by changing the mouthpiece. In contrast, mechanical problems have to be fixed in a shop by a craftsman (assuming they can be fixed at all).
_________________
HERMOKIWI

[shofarguy]

[OldSchoolEuph]

New horns invariably require a certain amount of special attention that new buyers typically are not aware of.

1. Clean the horns inside and out, grease the slides with a reliable lubricant (Schilke slide grease, Bag Balm, Pure lanolin oil) and cut it with a drop or three of valve oil until the slides move as freely as you desire. Oil the valves with a quality valve oil.

2. Frequently (as in every day or two depending how much you are playing, say every 3 hours or so of use) remove the pistons, swab them down, swab the casings and re-oil. This is to remove the black residue that will accumulate rapidly as the new valves wear in over the first few months, which can slow or even cause hesitation in valve action.

3. If something does not seem to fit after 1 & 2, it will need attention from a skilled tech, but other than leaking valves should not be any great concern.

4. The sound you hear behind the bell is not what others hear in front of it. Rely on skilled ears to help you assess, and when practical, point your bell at a hard smooth wall with soft materials behind you and try to focus on the sound coming back at you off the wall.

5. Don't listen to any one else with regard to what is "better" other than your teacher and trusted others specifically with regard to how YOU sound. The opinions of the rest of us here on the web with regard to brands mean nothing. All that matters is what works best for you.

In answer to the actual question, what matters most (top priority first) is:

1. Which helps you sound your best for your audience?
2. Which requires less effort of you to do what you want it to do?

That's it. The rest is just logistics and image.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[HERMOKIWI]

[cgaiii]

I agree with most of what has been said, particularly with Crazy Finn.

I would add: Yamaha comes with nylon valve guides. I have found that switching to metal gets rid of the feeling of sluggishness in the valves. Of course they might just need a little TLC.

Does one of the horns inspire you, make you want to pick it up and play, make it so you are sad to close it up in the case? I would get that one if it is in good shape.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales

[Brad361]

[plankowner110]