Observation on Calicchio 2 & R2 bells with 7 & 9 lea

[novaj5]

Hi fellow TH'ers,

Thanks to everyone's help, I did manage to get my 1s/7 back and convert it into an R2/7. Since then I've taken quite a journey for a year and recently received a new 2 bell and 9 pipe from John Duda. (Not sure if he's still actively in the business though. His health issues seem quite severe and I had to wait and ask him over a long period of time.)

Back when my main axe was a 1s/7, I just wished if it could be slightly broader / diffused / warmer... you know the game But the moment I received and played the R2/7, it just hit me on the head that I should've gotten a regular yellow brass 2 bell (or 3 bell). I went on a search and through a lot of things (which, in part, eventually ended up with a new Van Laar BR2 flugelhorn somehow. Lol!), but to cut the story short, I've now got parts to juggle around and briefly tested different combinations between these bells and leadpipes. Please notice that the 9 leadpipe was not properly soldered onto the horn's body. 7 was there all the time and I just temporarily switched the tuning slide to plug & play with the 9 pipe.

https://k.kakaocdn.net/dn/buSxAm/btqxcMKUXwE/n4aeeCCA6ZkFGyfTdcgyWK/img.jpg

Here's MY preference out of the pack:
R2/9 >= 2/7 > 2/9 >>> R2/7

What I suspected before, and clearly felt this time, is that R2 with a 7 pipe just doesn't seem to produce the sound that's in my head. I find myself instinctively forcing myself to find it all the time and thus fighting the horn somehow. This would be a personal preference though - if you like the sound that's naturally put out by this combination, it would be great. For me it was just too dark / shut in.

7 pipe is even, focused, with the resistance very up front towards the receiver. This tendency though, seems to 'pull' the sound together with an already darker sounding R2 bell. Once you get used to it though, a 7 pipe horn plays like a toy... in a good way. 'Plays by itself' would be a better phrase, maybe. It feels like you don't even have to try. The sensation your body goes through would be similar to a speaking mode.

This sensation is something I got back with a 2/7. Sound is evenly balanced. Maybe the Calicchio version of a Bach Strad(LT?), but with that Calicchio edge and response. Once again, after almost 2 years (since I knocked off my 1s/7), I can't believe a horn would speak so easy and so fast. I'd say this would be the best 'everyday' horn I've got my hands on.

2/7 and 2/9 didn't seem to differ too much in its tonal color, but 2/9 is just freer in many regards. By the time I dialed in, it was playing much.... broader / fuller / richer (maybe a little warmer / sweeter?)... again, whatever term you call it. As the official description goes, it seems to give you more control of how you want to sound.

What I love about the 9 pipe is that it just feels so nice blowing through it. It's not as terribly big as I worried it could be - closest blowing feel I could think of is a Flip Oake's Wild Thing trumpet, which I think might be a hair larger (I suppose a 3/9 would be closer to it?). I remember one poster saying how flugels feel so good with its natural flow of air. 9 pipe feels similar to that. On the other hand, I see how 1s/2 does have an interesting (exponential?) response curve. 9 just feels even.

So the 2/9 combination was OK, but to ME it didn't have something that would make it 'stand out'. It would be a great all-around horn if you prefer open blowing horns. For me, for everyday use, it'll be 2/7. For that sweet, dreamy vibe, I'll go for the R2/9.

R2/9 just had that magic to it, making you go '...!' and later close your eyes just submerge into playing music. I see how Galen's tests with different setups and players resulted with favorable results on the R2/9. I think Calicchio 2 bells, given how they're sort of in the middle of things, is generally a hard-to-match bell within the Calicchio line, but man R2 bell with the 9 pipe combination is just a great, great match. I'm just an amateur player but if it has good intonation, I think even the symphony guys might love it, too. (I'm not super pitch-sensitive, and the pipe was not fully mounted so I can't tell for that now.)


Now, the problem for me is... 2/7 and R2/9 are just worlds apart from each other. Currently it's in a 2/7. Took me good 2 hours hesitating if I wanted to reassemble it to R2/9, but the technician consistently suggested me to try it as a 2/7 first for a while. Now I'm wondering if I should change my 1s/2 into R2/9... but all horns are so damn good! money is THE object here and I wish I had a bigger bank account.
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

It took me a little while to connect that you were the one who had lost and then recovered your trumpet through the eyes of TH players. I'm really glad you have it back.

I'm not a good enough player to have a comment on which version to go with. I'd consider:
-where you play it (more legit, jazz, etc.)
-how much freedom mouthpiece gives you on sound
-less permanent ways to tweak sound (tuning slides)
-what comparable sound you'd be most likely to find in another instrument (if the 2/7 sounds like a vanilla bach, maybe keep an eye out for a vanilla bach and go with the 2/9, or if you're wanting something more open, maybe stick with 2/7 and buy a used trumpet that plays more open). I don't know what it costs to buy and swap trumpet parts, but at some point you're probably just better off having several distinct trumpets (or maybe I'm wrong?).

Incidentally, someone else now is discussing a Kanstul that is modeled off of a Calicchio--maybe that could be something to keep your eye out for?

Congrats on recovering the trumpet and best wishes on where you take it...

[novaj5]

Thank you HaveTrumpetWillTravel

I lean towards small combo / contemporary playing. I'm not really interested in (nor have the ability to, lol) doing lead or studio session type of playing (even though the high notes on the R2/9 connected easier and fuller). I think I can pull out my 2/7 or 1s/2 for those types of music, if I had to.

I'm quite hooked on the R2/9 but at the same time, don't really want to mess with the 2/7 and 1s/2 I have. They're just so good in their own regards. If I have to pull them apart... dang. 2/7 could be the best all-around, everyday horn, and with 1s/2 I just love that pure power and organic-ish feel to it. It's the "trompeta, di tutti trompeta" after all I think this model, above all else, is the epitome of what Calicchio is. Something that represents and symbolizes the brand.

Given that I save up for a while or pay in installments, I'm guessing my best bet might be to contact Charley Davis to build me one using the R2 bell and 9 leadpipe I have. Save unnecessary costs and get a new horn. The bracing etc. should be the same as 1s/7 and 1s/9 models he builds so can't go too wrong, I believe. I've been through too much, trying 2nd hand horns and having to work through all over the place to have it in optimal condition. (But at the same time... still would be tempted if I see something like a 3/7 pop out, haha)

Does anyone have Charley Davis' contacts though? I'm not sure how to get to him.
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn

[yourbrass]

If you have a mouthpiece mount that can be soldered on to the extra pipe so you can easily use it to test, you might have a better chance to figure out what really works. I know John Duda used to supply those sometimes with a new pipe. Otherwise it's electrical tape to stick it on the existing setup.

I have an old 2/2, which I then put a 9 pipe on, and now I'm considering trying a 7. The original setup just didn't play that well, but I have another 2 pipe that plays a lot better. To some degree. it's going to be "X-factor" in making a determination - numbers can be identical but they all play differently.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[novaj5]

Not sure what the mouthpiece mount is. John didn't send me one, but I do have a BERP. I did hold the leadpipes together (naturally) when I tested, though.

What made you move from 2/2 to 2/9, then 2/9 to something else? If you didn't like the overall blow, and like some resistance, 7 could be a good alternative for sure. I do find that many players don't adapt to the 7 pipe straight away - when they hit the wall (resistance), they feel uncomfortable then try to power through it, which results in overblowing and stuffiness. The thing is you only need just that much (or less) air to play her. I always feel kinda sorry when I let others try and see how they don't get the concept... there would be a couple guys out of 10 who adapts to it quickly, many times the novice players because they don't have a fixed idea about how they 'should' be blowing (or don't know how to use air properly and thus using less air to play). I'm actually cautious about getting back to it as my main axe because of this.

Sound wise, it'll be more focused / concentrated than the other two you've tried, but is not going to go to extremes (at least compared to a 1s/7). Sort of a Bach 37~43 but with a bit more resistance, speed, focus and energy, I guess? (I've tried a few over times but never owned a Bach Strad, btw.)

If you like the tendency or characteristics of the 2 pipe, why don't you try switching to the other 2 pipe you've mentioned first? Yes even the same models could play differently for whatever reason and you won't really see what it's like unless you actually try That belief has got me spending a lot though, ha!
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn

[yourbrass]

[quote="novaj5"]Not sure what the mouthpiece mount is. John didn't send me one, but I do have a BERP. I did hold the leadpipes together (naturally) when I tested, though.
I think the BERP may do the same thing as the mount in holding it while you play, not sure. It's a part of a mouthpiece taper that sits in the original while having a piece soldered on to the new receiver.

What made you move from 2/2 to 2/9, then 2/9 to something else?

It played better - the original 2 just wasn't that good.


Sound wise, it'll be more focused / concentrated than the other two you've tried, but is not going to go to extremes (at least compared to a 1s/7). Sort of a Bach 37~43 but with a bit more resistance, speed, focus and energy, I guess? (I've tried a few over times but never owned a Bach Strad, btw.)

It's nothing like a Bach. The 7 has more resistance of course. The one I have has a good sound, but I need to solder it on for a real trial over time.

If you like the tendency or characteristics of the 2 pipe, why don't you try switching to the other 2 pipe you've mentioned first?

That's also on the agenda. I just need time to really get into how one setup plays. Too much switching and I'm lost.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[novaj5]

Oh, so you already have a 7 pipe? I also see that you're a brass technician. Looks like you'll have no problem switching things.

I'm approaching my 2/7 carefully, too. Take it out every hour or so, and just see how it plays the same thing I've been practicing. Other than the different resistance, it feels like the new bell hasn't broken-in yet? Will see how it goes.

So you're currently on a 2/9, but have choices with the better 2 and 7 pipes. It's just a matter of your preference then, I guess 9 and 7 are on opposite ends, but 2 is somewhere in the middle in terms of openness. Have fun trying out!
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn

[kevin_soda]

I have a R3/7 and I love it! Unfortunately, it had a faulty bell seam and John wasn't able to honor his warrantee promise. It was very frustrating and after 2 years of intermittent communication and empty promises, I sent it to Osmun Music. They fixed it and the horn plays better than ever. I was interested in trying a #9 pipe but it just hasn't been worth the time to try to find one.
_________________
Kevin

[novaj5]

Sorry to hear that, Kevin.
As far as I know John was away from his mandrels for a while... Maybe that's why?
To be honest, many of the times - not always, but quite often - when I received something from John there were some imperfections. I just figured that nobody's perfect and he's not in the best circumstances of all. (He sent me some stuffs for free, too!)

I managed to fix most of them, some of them with John's help. And then they just play so damn well. I gotta admit I've been pretty much a Calicchio loyalist. Traded hundreds of emails with John over the years (yes he doesn't always respond...) I take him as a master craftsman and a no-frills guy at the same time. May not be the perfect product quality manager, but I'm grateful for everything he's done for me so far. I'm glad to hear that your R3/7 is playing great now! Hope it does so for many years to come.
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn