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Interesting Discussion about Jerome at Maynard Ferguson Site


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tomba51
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Interesting Discussion about Jerome at Maynard Ferguson Site Reply with quote

http://maynardfergusonboard.yuku.com/topic/7755/Jerome-Calletat-Clinics
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bg
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just checked out that thread. While I will not reply on that forum, I would like to jump in here with a bit of testimonial on Jerry's behalf.

One of the posters on the Maynard forum asks: "Was there ever a way to translate his knowledge of playing easily in the upper register to some WITH musical ability in order to his methodology usable in the real world?" (sic)

Jerry may not be a performer, but that has never been his claim. He has grasped some essential physical concepts that run contrary to the current trends in brass teaching. In doing so, his ideas are typically treated as quackery by much of the "legit" community. However, many open minded people understand the truth in the adage, "in an insane world, the sane man appears insane."

To answer the question of the poster in the Maynard forum straightforwardly, I'd invite him to check out my recording, "Polytonal Dance Party" on Origin Records. (2008). During this period, I was exclusively practicing Jerry's techniques and applying them.

Today, I have retained many aspects of his approach, while mixing them with other, non-superchops techniques. I don't personally believe that there is any one correct or best way to play, and am constantly exploring new approaches. (Much like Mr. Callet, himself.) Like most students, I retain those aspects of any particular technique that are helpful to me.

I can say that I would not be the trumpeter I am today without the spark of the ideas Jerry gave me about the tongue. Anyway, if you're looking for an example of super chops being used in a "musical" way, I invite you to check out that CD.

Sorry if this sounds boastful. I just hate to see Jerry bashed by ignorant people.
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tomba51
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't all negative. Several posters, including myself, attested to Jerry's amazing abilities in terms of range, power, endurance, and accuracy. One poster wished that Jerry had had the opportunity to play William Russo's Titan Symphony in Carnegie Hall (if you don't know the Titan Symphony, here is a recording of Maynard Ferguson performing it with the NY Phil;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8uRBB8nTxE)
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markchuvala
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anybody has the old Superchops vhs from late 80s/early 90s, he plays with students. Clarke studies up to double Cs and Ds. I heard him in the early 90s....loud as hell, but never heard him play a melody.

I've heard Jerry "tell me" about his playing a lot more than I've ever heard him play.

I've also heard him say "listen to my perfect centered in tune double C not bad for an 80 year old man" Then play a sharp high A or some other partial instead....never had the heart to correct or question him. I'd love to hear/see him or Kyle play a 3 octave scale with the precision they boast tce can produce.

He's a great salesman, built great horns and mouthpieces, and helped me and countless others with chop stuff...

Mark

One sentence deleted by moderators - unnecessary to point of post and could be perceived as derogatory name calling. Do refrain in Callet Dedicated forum.
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markchuvala wrote:


I've also heard him say "listen to my perfect centered in tune double C not bad for an 80 year old man" Then play a sharp high A or some other partial instead....never had the heart to correct or question him. I'd love to hear/see him or Kyle play a 3 octave scale with the precision they boast tce can produce.

He's a great salesman, built great horns and mouthpieces, and helped me and countless others with chop stuff.....

Mark


I had a similar experience.

Met with him at his home about 3 years ago for a lesson. GREAT guy. I really enjoyed talking about trumpets, mouthpieces, and trumpet players with him.

I thought the lesson was really helpful as well. I had dabbled with TCE a bit but sitting with him really helped my understanding of the TCE/MSC stuff. He demonstrated some "double C's" that really weren't, but to be honest I was more there for help with my playing, not to hear him.

Well worth what I payed for the lesson.

(...and I was between horns at the time so I ALMOST picked up a SIMA)
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's said to me during a lesson at his house that he's not a musical player, but he's trained some very musical players.

My playing has improved drastically since taking a few lessons with him. My regular teacher in San Diego (a member of the SD Symphony) thinks I sound terrific, can't understand how I get such a big sound out of one of Callet's small mouthpieces, and encourages me to stick with it even though he can't produce a decent sound the way I showed him what I've been doing since taking a few lessons in MSC.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early on he kept a paper tablet of 40 + solos written out--most that were well known MF tunes.

'Maria', 'Over the Rainbow', Tenderly, Mac Park, Frame for the Blues, Ole, etc. You could hear several of them if you wanted...
@^^@

He was relentless in terms of 'execution'. Almost no labor or strain on his part, one after the other after other etc, as if it was effortless for him. One quote at the time was, "the bottom lip up and in behind the top". No TCE as of yet.

Muscle on his top lip was developed to the extent---the rim was overlapped by it. Only the lower rim could be seen.
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edtaylor
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that Jerry is treated like John Karlson of Karlson Coupler (loudspeaker) fame. People either love him or bash him, and both sides seem evangelistic in their efforts.

I happen to like Jerry, I tried and failed on SC even with a phone call to Jerry but TCE works for me as the tongue is in a different place. While I was failing on SC the forum wasn't very forgiving as I was perceived as a basher just because the method wasn't clearly defined in the book. I could not place my tongue in front of my teeth to the upper gum line (per the illustration) and get a note.
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed, Which illustration are you referring to?
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Mr.Hollywood
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no Superchops or TCE player (I'm a life long Reinhardt student), but I'd like to chime in here......

I know Jerry since 1981, and yes he had not just great , but fu**ing incredible high chops back then. He played Hot Canary for me over and over, not just little squeaks like Bahb but so loud you almost wanted to hide in a closet.

I was across the street at Giardinelli's once upstairs going crazy with a whole box of 7M's and I could hear Jerrys high notes from across the street in NYC traffic.

Over the years I have seen the decline, but it was pretty slow. He would sometimes call me and say he was going to play a DHC over the phone and it would be an open high Bb or something.

You also have to remember that the trumpet is an instrument that is not kind to old men like the piano or violin. Comes your mid 60's and you start losing a little here , a little there I don't care who you are. This should be a lesson to every high note "meathead" out there.......learn to play the trumpet well, so that when and if the chops start to slip you still have something to offer.

CLB
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edtaylor
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
Ed, Which illustration are you referring to?
It was the crude hand drawn illustration either in or provided as an insert to the SC book. It showed the tongue outside the teeth with the chin bunched as the tongue was pushed up. I don't have it any more, I sold the book and both VHS tapes on marketplace. I asked Jerry about it when I called and he said just to push it up as far as I could. Interestingly, he must have already moved on as the new approach came out before I abandoned both the method and the TH forum. At that time the moderators, loyal to the original SC, did not want us to discuss the new method. But that's all history, Ken came to the rescue by providing his lesson notes.
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shangrila
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to a Callet clinic in Toronto several years ago with a friend.

I could just not get into this at the time but kept working with it but found I
could just not be comfortable enough to remain with it. I did however find I had a higher range after going back to my old ways.

My friend did get on to it and actually became comfortable with it ad stayed with it for a while. He did drop it a few month later and went back to his old ways.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

At the clinic there we several newbies as well as some old hats. The ones there that had it down were very good and had been doing this method for some time, one chap into his second year.

So it may not be for everyone but may be well worth at try.
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a perverse way, those that get Jerome's system quickly do a disservice to the rest of us. These people lead us to mistakenly believe that the system is a quick fix. However most of us, including myself, have a lot of old habits to break. And that can take a considerable amount of time. "The more deeply the traditional systems are ingrained, the more commitment needed to change". Yes, "the more deeply committed, the speedier the progress". But I don't think there is anything terribly wrong with grabbing what we can, then return to old system with the improvements, then come back to Jerome's instructions when the mind is ready. It's the long term progress that really matters. Jerry has the right direction, but IMO it's okay to follow the path in an angular way. Best wishes to all, Kyle
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice thread. Jerry can shock you to your core. He can force you to question your old beliefs and confront your preconceived limitations. I wish that more people understood his value in this regard.

Jeff
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rothman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being one of the few who heard Jerry in his prime...

Almost none on this forum have heard - Jerry at around 40 years of age and up. This seems like a shame. Recordings of some type from 1970, or band mentioned - must have survived. ..To not convert some of the (analog) recordings is hard to figure. I recall he was he willing to play at the drop of a hat for anyone, and you could tell he was justifiably proud of his ability.

In some cases students recorded lessons with him, where he often played or demonstrated during a lesson. Not one has popped up by now ? ?


Last edited by rothman on Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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trumpetplanet
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rothman wrote:
Jerry played many mouthpiece cupsizes.
Thoughts ?


I play with the Superchops embouchure and use quite a variety of mouthpieces.

Although the Superchops mouthpieces were integral to my learning the technique I actually use a deeper mouthpiece on most classical gigs just so that I can blend well with players who don't use Superchops.

I also think it's a real shame that there aren't more recordings of Jerry from the past that are available for people to hear. I'd love even to watch the video that came with the 1987 Superchops book.
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a session with Jerry back in 1986 when he had a large space in Harlem. Later I joined a big band seesion there and he was burying the band with DHC's.
Had he developed the full TCE embouchure yet? Was he playing then the way he teaches Superchops now?
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love talking to Jerry. He has great stories to tell and he is always entertaining. He also has VERY strong opinions. I use some aspects of his teaching. Like Brad, it is my opinion that there is no single way to playing good trumpet.
When someone has opinions as strong as Jerry's, it kind of sets them up for the love/hate feedback. That's just who he is. We've all heard a story or two where he went "a little too far" with someone. Big deal. He's passionate and confident about his beliefs so good for him.
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trumpetplanet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chapahi wrote:
I had a session with Jerry back in 1986 when he had a large space in Harlem. Later I joined a big band seesion there and he was burying the band with DHC's.
Had he developed the full TCE embouchure yet? Was he playing then the way he teaches Superchops now?


I'm not the most qualified person to answer this question but you deserve a reply so I'll give it a shot. From what I have read the fundamental aspects of his teaching have not vastly changed but it was through teaching that he realised exactly how much the tongue was doing. It was Bahb Civiletti who thought up the term 'Tongue Controlled Embouchure'; Jerry has called his method 'Superchops' since the book came out in 1987.

There is conflicting information on this topic within this forum on the subject so I think that the answer to your question would be different depending on who you talk to but there are two things worth pointing out. At this stage I won't trawl through 70 odd pages of posts for direct quotes but if necessary then I might do it, depending on where this conversation goes...

1) Some posts from around 2001 say that in moving from the 1987 Superchops to the 2001 Trumpet Secrets the focus of the technique moved away from one based upon lip movement/compression (which results in the air being compressed between the top teeth and bottom lip) to the use of a tongue wedge (which results in the air being compressed between the top of the tongue and the top teeth).
2) Some posts by Jerry's pupils at this time state clearly that in lessons Jerry was teaching many of the same things after the release of Trumpet Secrets as he had for the previous 10 years.

IMHO Superchops has always been evolving and pinning any particular date on any particular change has limited value. Personally I have Trumpet Yoga, Superchops (minus video), Trumpet Secrets and the MSC DVD. Whilst I enjoy reading and playing the exercises from the first two I find the latter two to be much more useful with their direct, helpful instruction.
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat, always good to hear from you. Hope all is going well.

To me, at least 70% of Jerry's instruction is about the ears and that hnever changes. The other 30% is what the lips, tongue, and air need to do to get that sound. He's not talking about the aesthetics of the sound. He's talking about 'hearing the trumpet turn on' - when it becomes rich, powerful, centered, and in tune. And easy to play! Once you learn to hear it then you can learn to find it. Jerry has spent the last 20 years working on a variety of small chop tweaks, each designed to make it easier to find and hear that 'turn on' point.

On the flip side, once you've learned the sound of a turned-on trumpet it becomes hard to listen to trumpeters that are weak, spread, forced, dull in timbre, or out of tune with the center of the pitch. And because you've learned what fixes these problems on your own chops and many hundreds of others, you might start to offer suggestions. Then, Jerry might ask if you want to hear a trumpet that is both turned on and fully turbocharged. And before you can answer you may find yourself blown across the street. Some will say that's not helpful. 😄
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