Monette acclimation?

[Dutch Guy]

A friend of mine got a Monette mouthpiece, and couldn't make it work. I got it for now and am wondering some things. Before you ask: I searched for similar topics and didn't find one in the past 1+ year. I read the stuff in the box and on the website about how to use it and the acclimation guide and everything, together with countless video's on youtube.

I got a Monette Prana B6S1 82. Rim and Cup sizes match more or less with what I was using previously.

The first time I played on the mouthpiece, I got a very airy tone. No core at all, and no upper register either. I tried for an hour, switching between this one and my old one occasionally, even recording myself because I wanted to hear what it sounds like. I couldn't even play my Arban studies with it.

I contacted my friend, and told him he could have it back. He said, you have to play it even more differently than usual. Lips wider apart, and lots of air. OK. One more try.

So the mouthpiece is now resting much more against my upper lip, lips wider apart, and WOW. What a difference. Suddenly the upper register was there. All of it, and crispy clean. And what a sound.

In the evening I went to the rehearsal with it. First half hour I played lead parts, and it went quite well. No problems with the new embouchure. Then I switched to lower parts, and it didn't work at all anymore. Back to the horrible sound that I got in the first hour of playing. No core, range was gone again, and horrible intonation. Couldn't get it to work at all anymore, and had to switch back to my old piece which performed as usual.

I'd like to know: is this normal for these mouthpieces? Do other people have difficulties with switching from high to low range? Can I expect this to resolve itself in time? Are there exercises that can help me train this?

Thanks!

[Richard III]

So perhaps someone can say more, but when I tried one, it sounded great right away. Your experience sounds like the opposite of the honeymoon that most people have with new mouthpieces.

I would have a hard time staying with something that didn't work at first. Imagine going in to try new shoes. They hurt, walking is difficult and you ask the sales guy for something else. He just says you'll get used to them. Really?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Andy Del]

The short answer. No. It’s not for you. Not a big deal, just like a colleague who plays the same Monette mic as I do getting me to play his Monette P3 Bb.

I sound no different on it to my normal horn... it’s just a data point.
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

[Richard III]

And then I thought some more about it. Not exactly the same thing but, the Wick no letter cornet mouthpieces are much more open than what most people play. I've heard many people play them and sound very dull like someone stuck a sock in their bell. They have a 15 or so bore. That means many things are possible. Low notes can really sound. Tongue arch is more possible to assist with range. More air is needed to support the sound. If you don't do those things, you get the dull sound. Do those things and the sound is amazing. If I work on the Wick, it forces me to do the right things. My range and endurance goes way up.

So is the Monette mouthpiece like that?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Andy Del]

I feel it is Richard. Just like any mouthpiece. If it works, it works and you play in a correct manner. A cheater mpc, or similar gives you something for nothing - and then the bill arrives and it is a lot more than you wanted, as far as playability goes.

At the time I moved to Monettes, I tried a 6 series, and felt it was too small, but certainly did work, more like an uncomfortable shoe. A 4 series didn't work at all and sounded dreadful. Then I chanced upon a 3 series cornet mouthpiece which just worked brilliantly. Decision made, I purchased it and worked to getting Bb and C models. That was some 14 or 15 years ago...

That I can play things I never could before, despite being an old conductor / trumpet teacher / music admin / classroom teacher and then trumpet player reinforces my feeling that if ti works, it works and if it doesn't, try something else. Don't waste time on a poor mpc fitting!

cheers

Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

[Goby]

Monette mouthpieces reward maximum relaxation and tension-free playing. I wouldn't advise on any embouchure changes especially if the mouthpiece is unfamiliar. The heavier weight might be the cause for less feedback to the player resulting in less perceived "core".

When I played on Monette mouthpieces, I never really got along with the rim. While they're great mouthpieces, AR Resonance was a much better fit for my playing. Similar intonation qualities, but better rims and a richer sound.

[plunkett]

I use a B4S on both Bb and C trumpets and I never ran into anything like you are experiencing. Mine sounded great first try (and I ended my mouthpiece search right then and there!).

Pat
_________________
Pat Plunkett

[Danbassin]

[Danbassin]

DARN - the link to Monette's site, above, doesn't connect, so here's how to access the Acclimation Tips section:

https://www.monette.net/

Click "Mouthpieces" at the top menu bar, but don't click one of the submenu items.

This will lead you to the Mouthpiece section with Comparison Chart, and Selection Guide, as you scroll down to Acclimation Guide (above their FAQ). Click Acclimation Guide, and you'll have a digital version of what used to be found in the paper Mouthpiece Guides Monette would publish every few years.

Best,
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD

[Dutch Guy]

Thansk Danbassin!

I had already found and read the guide, and pretty much everything else on the website. I've been paying attention to body posture and compensation and stuff like that. THAT doesn't really make a difference. Not enought to make it sound good or not. I have had teachers that made sure I wasn't doign anything stupid haha I've had trumpet and trombone lessons for about 12 years I think.

It's really a change in aperture and mouthpiece placement (I guess?) that does it. To use an analogy: I used to put my mouthpiece more like Sergei Nakariakov (a bit downward), and the Monette mouthpiece only works if I put it like Adam Rapa does. It feels strange, because I have an overbite.

What bothers me most is the way the mouthpiece punishes 'not correct' playing. If I'm tired, or have done too much high-then-low-then-high stuff, the monette is useless, whereas my regular mouthpiece is just fine still.

[trumpetchops]

I went from Bach to Monette. The Monette mouthpiece was better right away. I wouldn't mess with your embouchure. You shouldn't have to make it work. There are a lot of people that don't like them. You might be one of them. Don't force it.

For me, the biggest challenge was that the notes were in a different place. I got used to this pretty quickly.
_________________
Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

[GordonH]

I have experienced this with the earlier Monette Prana mouthpieces, but the later slap resonance versions less so.
You may find you respond better to a non prana mouthpiece. I have one instrument that really doesnt like the prana ones for some reason. It may be gap related. I know the Monette mouthpieces are made to give a bigger gap in most trumpets and that is part of the design calculation.
You might find playing for a bit with a practice mute in helps you get focus on it. I had that when I was playing a Wild Thing on a B1-5M prana. It was a very open set up and needed some resistance intially to ehlp me get used to it.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Dutch Guy]

It's a few practice sessions later, and I'm starting to like it more and more. Apart from all the posture stuff, one thing seems to be very important with this mouthpiece, and that's blowing the air straight through the mouthpiece. As in: actually through the hole, instead of anywhere else in the cup. That's what the changed lip positions I mentioned earlier did. It positioned my teeth and lips in a way that the air goes straight through the hole.

With other mouthpieces that isn't an issue. But if I don't do it with this one, the sound gets really bad. If I DO do it, I get an excellent upper register, most definitely a better sound than with my other mouthpieces.

The downside of this, is that my lips / jaws aren't used to that. They are used to their natural overbite. That also means that within half an hour i'm done. At least until I get my lips to adjust to that.

[vwag]

I would speculate that breathing techniques, posture, relaxation and all of these tips are all good ideas- ON ANY equipment. The engineer in me has a hard time thinking that a mouthpiece requires this technique, and everything else is perfectly fine with sloppy technique.

[BraeGrimes]

Yeah, it's good general advice for trumpet playing, in my opinion. Monette mouthpieces ARE very different (short backbore with a large taper, large throat diameter, etc) but practicing good breathing, posture, etc. will improve your playing. So will practice...

[Daniel Barenboim]

2 months of yoga and lots of Indian food.

😎

DB

[GordonH]

I got my old B15 Prana out of the cupboard last night and found a similar thing. It must be something to do with the non slap design, the shape of the cup etc. It is not very forgiving. It worked very nicely in my rotary trumpet though, which had never tried. I am going to take it to an orchestra rehearsal and compare it to the newer type in a bigger room.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Brad361]

[scottfsmith]

I'd suggest sticking with it for at a month at least, playing as much as you can on it so you really give it a chance. Some people adapt quickly, some adapt slowly depending on what kind of embouchure they start with.

For me I felt like the Monette gently nudged me to a better embouchure, and even though it is mostly sitting in the drawer now it was a valuable learning experience. Your notion of "blowing to the center" sounds like the kind of thing I experienced. So even if you don't stick with the Monette think about bringing that idea back to your old mouthpiece.

Today I would be perfectly fine if all mouthpieces were Monettes and I had to play on one, they are great mouthpieces. But I find my GR a bit better overall so I play on it.
_________________
Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[Vin DiBona]

I do not play Monette pieces and have never tried one, but did you read this? Prana models should be a step up from the classic models, perhaps not the first choice.
https://www.monette.net/single-post/2016/08/31/Mouthpiece-Selection-Guide-found-in-our-2015-Brochure
R. Tomasek