How to Find the Best Orchestral Mouthpiece for Me?

[BbTrumpet1]

Hello,

I am currently student teaching (music ed) but planning on continuing on and auditioning for grad school (classical route) in the near future. I’m playing a ton, and just started taking lessons from an amazing teacher.

DISCLAIMER: I am not looking for a quick fix. I went mouthpiece shopping purely out of curiosity.

In college, I started playing on an Faxx 3C mouthpiece and have been for the last four or so years. I know it’s a cheaper copy of Bach, and went into a shop today to try out an actual Bach 3C. I actually kind of liked the feel as opposed to the Faxx. I get many compliments on my sound, but I have trouble making my upper register sound as good as the stuff below.

The attendant suggested a bunch of other things and said they were all “better fits” for me than the Bach 3C. I know many orchestral players play on 1 1/2 C, and initially, it felt a bit large for me. I am wondering if this is because I haven’t worked my way up enough embouchure-wise yet, or if my lips just will never be big enough for that size. However, after attempting some research today it seems as though i should be working towards a larger mouthpiece?

The attendant talked me into buying a Pickett 3D mouthpiece because my range was very strong and full. He said my sound improved. However, I feel like it brightened my sound. The mouthpiece will still be a useful purchase because I do some lead playing here and there, however what I really wanted was something either equivalent to what I was already using, or even something wider/larger to start working up to.

Any advice would be so much appreciated, I know less than I should about different mouthpieces. I am not looking for a quick-fix to my range issues, I know that a lot of it is due to excess tension/incorrect usage of air and am starting to improve the sound of my upper register with my teacher’s help.

Some specific things I’d love to know:
Could a 1 1/2 C be a good option for me? Is it possible to know if it was just too big right away? Doesn’t it take time and practice to find out if a mouthpiece is a good fit?

The fact that my range is a bit thin right now is not a mouthpiece issue, correct? Doesn’t it have more to do with the way I am playing? (This attendant really confused me)

What mouthpieces are similar that I can try that will enhance or won’t sacrifice my sound?

Is it possible that my lips are just too small for a larger mouthpiece?

[cheiden]

This forum pretty routinely and rightly trounces on the notion that players ought/should/need to graduate to bigger pieces. But they also routinely fight over whether orchestral players must go large.

My strongest suggestion is to stick with your preferred piece until your instructor advises otherwise. If you really feel like experimenting you could try the Bach 5C which has a good size cup but a bit of a bite. Or go with the Bach 1.5C. I really enjoyed my time a 1.5C but I never got comfortable on that rim shape/size. I had a rim I preferred threaded onto the 1.5C underpart and have been pretty happy.

FWIW there a large number of posters here that claim that the identically numbered Curry pieces are better than the Bach.

At some point you may want to experiment with backbores and throats but I have yet to develop a strong opinon of those.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Schilkes22]

The Curry 3 series is a larger(though only slightly) than a Bach 3. As part of My safari, I switched from a Bach 3C to a Curry 3B and 3M. I noticed a difference. The Curry 600 series with a C cup is a REALLY comfortable rim in the same diameter as a Bach and in My opinion is slightly better playing all around. Is it better for You? I can't say.
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Schilke S22
Yamaha 631 Flugel
Warburton Mouthpieces
Berklee '95

[cgaiii]

I think it is a very personal thing.
Do you feel your mouthpiece limits you in some way?
For example, you want to get more air through the mouthpiece, but it feels restrictive as opposed to the horn feeling restrictive.
Is it uncomfortable in any way? Feels too shallow (you bottom out), feels to deep, feels too big (you feel like you could fit your whole face in it), feels too small (no place for your lip vibration on low notes).
Do you just want to experiment (it can be expensive)?

If you identify some characteristic about your mouthpiece that you want to change, starting the experiment is a whole lot easier. There are so many mouthpieces and opinions out there, it is really hard to choose where to start.
With some characteristic in mind, you could then take baby steps away from your current piece. Suppose you want more air through the mouthpiece. You could get a more open backbore (like the Bach symphonic series with the 24 backbore on your same cup and same 27 throat), or you could get a 3C drilled out to a larger throat, or both features in a symphonic series piece.

Anyway, small steps are usually most productive in my experience.

In addition, you could play with things like mouthpiece gap using your current mouthpiece and see if that changes things in a positive way.
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C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
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Flugel: Taylor Standard
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Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales

[DJtpt31]

If you do a search on TH you will find lots of commentary on what you're asking. Some good information and some bad information... use your best judgement. If you have identified an area of your playing that you feel isn't improving with your current set-up than maybe it is time to try something different. Since you are taking lessons perhaps talk with your teacher and ask his/her opinion and if they would allow you to try out some of their mps? If you're playing in the ensemble where you are getting credentialed from or have a trumpet friend ask them to accompany you when you try out mps.
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[CJceltics33]

My opinion is that there is no harm in trying. Give the bigger Bach--or any brand for that matter--a chance and see what happens. If you don't like it, no problem. Plenty of orchestral players play 3Cs. Its about what suits you, not what everyone else has

[Vin DiBona]

Call the manufacturers.

Scroll down to the Mouthpiece Manufacturers here.

http://www.trumpetperformancetips.com/trumpetmanufacturerlinks.html

They do it for a living and actually know what they are talking about.
Yes, top tier orchestral players do use larger equipment. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. They have to. They need to blend with strings and woodwinds at soft to moderate volumes and then play at staggering volumes in large tuttis without the sound getting shrill or edgy.
I've played in excellent orchestras with far better than average players in all sections. The dynamic swings can be stunning.

R. Tomasek

[AJCarter]

[Sustained note]

You could try giving Phyllis Stork a call. She is very knowledgeable and experienced with mouthpiece fitting:
https://storkcustom.com/how-to-choose-a-mouthpiece/
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Michael Greenberg

Giv'at Shmuel
Israel

Trumpet: Schilke B1 (2005)
Mouthpiece: Schilke Soloiste MG1
(Marc Geujon) gold plated
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Keep a sense of humor.

[JayKosta]

[gwood66]

I am a scrub comeback player, but my recommendation would be to educate yourself on mouthpiece construction (if you haven't already) and go see someone for a professional fitting. If you trust your new instructor then take them along. If you are serious, the three or four hundred dollars you spend will be worth it. By the time you cycle through several different mouthpieces you would have spent that money anyway. Good luck.

[Vin DiBona]

JayKosta, that's true. They do select based on their facial characteristics.

Jeff Parke of Chicago makes many mouthpieces for top tier players. Those that are are based on larger diameters married to Bach 5B cups.
Chris Martin's Parke model is a 1 1/2 C rim on the 5B cup. Depth and cup volume play an important part in choosing an orchestral mouthpiece.

As a GR dealer, I have fitted some excellent orchestral players with mouthpieces. Not one chose anything smaller than a 3C size. (.660)

Being in the Chicago area, I have experienced the thrill of performing with some of the best in all genres. When they spoke (speak), I learn.

Sadly, most of the top players won't post here (or very rarely do) simply because some amateur knows better than they do.

That remark isn't aimed at anyone if particular, but it is true.

It seems to me and others I know that those who constantly post here on virtually every subject do not have gigs.

Oh, well. I expect some flak on this.
R. Tomasek

[AJCarter]

[Jerry]

[John Mohan]

Given that you play on a Bach 3C sized mouthpiece, if you want something more orchestral I would suggest trying a Curry 3BC. mouthpiece. It combines the rim and cup diameter of a very good Bach Mt Vernon 3C with a Bach 1B cup depth and shape (the Bach 1B is actually one of the less deep Bach B cups - it is less deep than a Bach 3B - so transitioning to it is not hard to do). Also, because the particular Mt Vernon 3C that Mark Curry emulated when he made his 3C. rim/diameter is on the smaller side of the Mt Vernon 3C mouthpieces, it is almost the same diameter as a modern 3C (typical Mt Vernon 3C mouthpieces are bigger than modern 3C mouthpieces). The Curry 3BC. is an excellent orchestral mouthpiece. And it's not expensive either.

Info available on the Curry website at http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=47 :

[Rompson]

My personal experience:

You will know if a rim (either rim shape or diameter, or both) won’t work for you immediately. Flexibility and articulations won’t respond in an optimal way. Things will feel cramped if the rim is too small, and too labored if the rim is too big. If you get one of those feelings, don’t bother with the mouthpiece, even if the sound is “bigger”. You can get a “bigger” sound by changing other aspects of the mouthpiece that you have like the throat and backbore.

Try the 1 1/2c, and if it feels better and easier, great! Go with it! But don’t feel like you need to move to a 1 1/2c because it is a popular mouthpiece. The Pickett 3D is certainly more shallow than than a typical orchestral mouthpiece. A more typical mouthpiece would be the Curry 3BC that John Moran mentioned. Curry makes the BC in many different rim sizes as well.

[J-Walk]

Don’t let others’ equipment influence you too much. The suggestion to try a Bach 5C is a good one. Don’t forget the Bach 6C either. I might also suggest a Schilke Symphony M5C, M4C, or M3C. They all have a Bach style rims, they are slightly deeper than a Bach 3C, and very suitable orchestral playing.

If you struggle with high register already, I’d advise against larger mouthpieces unless your current mouthpiece leads to your chops getting pinned open up high. Don’t be afraid to play a more narrow diameter if it provides a better fit for your face. Large is only better if it helps you resolve issues in your playing.

I play a 1.5C sized mouthpiece, and my two daughter’s play the Schilke Symphony M5C and M4C respectively. There is NO way you could tell they play smaller mouthpieces than me. We all play classical/orchestral, and they both play with large, dense, powerful sounds; the oldest of the two uses her M4C setup in a professional orchestra with two others that play a 1C and a 1.5C. They love the way she sounds in their section. I expect most here would as well. Use what will help YOU sound and play your best.
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Burbank Benge MLP 3X+
Adams A5
Larson Brasswerks “Reese” Model C
Schilke P5-4 picc
Courtois 154 flugel
A few mouthpieces that fit my face and horns

[blbaumgarn]

There are many good suggestions written here. You need to find the mouthpiece that works best for "you" and that is made of of things regarding your embouchure, and other things. It might be more a medium cup, or larger depending. If I were you and you are serious about it, see your teacher, or find someone with orchestral experience and ask to play for them. Having the best full, rich orchestral sound should be first and that does vary with mouthpiece. Your professional teacher should be able to offer sage advice about where to start. Playing for someone who has orchestral experience and ask them to critique your sound. If they aren't a jerk, they will offer you good advice. The range issue is also something to work with your teacher about. It can be dealt with separately by using some flexibility excersizes. Some of the people who have answered you on here are spot on with their assessments. Message them and see what they want to say to you personally. Good Luck
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"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[Tpt_Guy]

[BbTrumpet1]