Piccolo trumpet beginner routine / teacher advice

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Hi All, I bought a Jupiter piccolo about six months ago and several mouthpieces (the schilke, a monette, and a Laskey). Initially, I had all the troubles everyone mentions. I started getting headaches, I realized I have a lot of pressure, and I was quacking a lot

I took a break. I bought a lead mouthpiece for my regular trumpet and I think that's helped me a little acclimating to piccolo mouthpieces. I can play 10+ minutes and be okay. I am primarily playing scales, little exercises and hymns.

Two main questions:
(1) I've heard it said here that you should build up on piccolo, but I'm really curious how that looks. For those of you who play piccolo what did that build up look like? Were you playing thirty minutes a day after a month? An hour after six months? How did you tackle repertoire? You can find nine gazillion warm up and practice routines for Bb but for piccolo I'm really interested in a nuts-and-bolts, "this is how I did it" set of exercises.
(2) I'm also interested in finding an online teacher where I could do a lesson every couple of weeks over the summer. I don't need a famous teacher, just someone better than me (perhaps a college student who has worked on piccolo for a couple of years and played in public). Any suggestions?

[nltrumpet]

I’m no piccolo expert, but I can offer advice based on my experiences. 10 minutes is a good amount of practice time on that instrument, though some may go further, and some (very renowned) players only play it for 2 minutes on a regular day.

When I’m really cookin’ on piccolo but not actively working on a piece, I’ll spend the vast majority of my time on the Bb side. Chris Gekker mentions this, and says when he has to play repertoire (often going back to the A side in doing so), it’s a slightly less high and demanding horn.

[cheiden]

I was advised to do my regular routine on the Bb and to only dedicate a small amount of time to the picc. Specifically to play a single Clarke study, and every two weeks move to the next Clarke study. The goal for me turned out to be that in time I lined-up on the picc so it became not so different than the Bb. For me it was not about getting stronger but about coordination.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[spitvalve]

I practice piccolo every other day for ten minutes or less. Mainly just working on getting the sound right at this point and trying not to play like a barbarian.
_________________
Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[Andy Cooper]

OK - it's been a long time since I had a pic but perhaps I can help a little.
1. Don't expect to play significantly higher on a pic than you can on your Bb. The purpose of the pic is to make the high notes more secure and of course to sound like a piccolo trumpet.
2. Some of the best training I had for pleasing articulation on pic was from playing french horn. Trumpet players trying to play french horn and pic for the first time suffer from the same splatty harsh attacks from starting and stopping the air abruptly with the tongue.
3. Bob Grocock (DePauw University) told me he approached the pic in many very short practices. I think he said he kept it next to him when he watched TV and played during commercials. It's a little hard for me to imagine the "old man" watching TV, but it's a good story anyway.
4. You don't have to use the shallowest cup available but you probably want a pretty large backbore. When you are zeroing in a pic, it's probably easiest to do with separate tops and Warburton threaded backbores. Something like a 10 or 10* would be a place to start with the backbores with an S or SV a start with cup shapes. From the Jupiter specs, I assume it is a Schilke clone and perhaps mouthpieces suggested for Schilke could be considered.
5. You might also try a practice approach that helps in learning to play C trumpet. Put together a few exercises and alternate playing them on Bb and your piccolo . This might help tame the quacking.
6. I'm a little concerned about your comment on headaches - this may relate to the stopping of the air with your tongue. I'm not sure this would help you or not but you might want to experiment with a "throat/breath" vibrato on some long notes to focus on air support more than tonguing. (This is sort of an oboe approach.)

[cheiden]

To a degree, extending range on the Bb may seem to benefit from blowing harder and clamping down. Doing that on the picc usually just hurts.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Piccolo has been helpful for me on embouchure, air, and tongue position on Bb trumpet. My headaches were definitely pressure related (not losing air), and I felt them the next day. They weren't terrible, but it was a surprise and a clear warning signing on pressure.

It helps to hear that even for the pros it's rare to play piccolo like Bb (where players easily do 1-3 hours a day under normal conditions). It sounds like piccolo is almost always an added in instrument that you do for short stretches. Presumably performance is also like this. It sounds like it's usually used for orchestral bits to add its particular voice. I'd sort of heard that here before but hadn't put the pieces together. For now, I will likely just stick with 10 minutes every other day or something like that (that was a good suggestion).

Thanks all for the help. I learn so much here.

[Turkle]

[rhtrumpet]

Like pretty much everyone has mentioned so far, I think the "less is more" approach is the way to go. When I'm in a good, balanced practice routine, I like to alternate instruments on various exercises...example: long tones on Bb, scales on C, etc. With piccolo, scales/arpeggios/Clarke/Vizzutti studies are my default exercises that help me navigate it comfortably.
When you're feeling up to it, I'd recommend the following two books specific to piccolo:
"Piccolo Trumpet Studies" by Phil Collins
"The Piccolo Trumpet" by David Hickman
Both have excellent explanations and warm-ups. The Hickman has etudes, duets, and orchestral excerpts. The Collins has a TON of short etudes that are fantastic.
Have fun and good luck!

[Shark01]

I have been playing piccolo for 4 years now, when I started had the same issues as the OP, now it is my favorite instrument.

While I can understand high level players mixing in 5 or 10 minutes into their regular routine, I think for beginners it’s a bad strategy.

I dedicate a whole day to just piccolo work. As a beginner, that was like 15 minutes, now usually 1.5 to 2 hours. I started with scales and 3 line studies, now I just play the literature, solos with recorded accompaniment.

My current focus is getting clean double tonguing.

And I don’t know the bore of a Jupiter, but I started on a small bore pic, but last year moved into a Schilke P7-4 which moved my playing forward considerably.

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Hi Everyone, thanks for the responses. One TH member sent me an intro trumpet book that's great for piccolo because it's in the right range. I've also bought the two Hickman books.

I feel like I've been able to play a little more this week, sometimes going a half hour with breaks throughout. I think the main challenges for me were initially: (1) breathing and (2) mouthpiece.

(1) Breathing
I'd noticed on C I get stale air and realized I'm breathing too deeply. For me I do better with a lighter breath that feels like it's more in the chest. With piccolo I am still wanting to take huge breaths and if I do it always leads to poor playing.

(2) Mouthpiece
I also struggled with the mouthpiece. I'm doing pretty well with a Monette mouthpiece. Tonight I also tried the Schilke 11ax on the Bb side and it felt much better than I remember from my first go a while back. I think part of my challenge is just that I'd never played a shallow mouthpiece before at all. Spending time on a shallower Bb mouthpiece also seems to help.

I'm working on confirming a teacher and will see how it goes.

The Jupiter is a ml bore piccolo (.450). I had tried a cheapo piccolo and it was pretty horrible. I'd tried a couple of piccolos in this size and larger bore seems the way to go as a beginner. My goal is to stay on this piccolo for a few years and then do a safari if I really get into piccolo.

I think Shark01's comment is also interesting. I feel like I do need a certain amount of "instrument on face" time to get acclimated to anything new. Playing in the lower range and taking breaks seems to help a lot in not overdoing it.

I'm getting a better sound out of it now. Another personal takeaway: like a lot of things I try on trumpet it sounds very simple until one gets started ("I think I'll try improv"). With piccolo it looks like key start-up skills include acclimating to size and mouthpiece, but also alternate fingerings, a different approach to tonguing, a different technique for trilling, more transposing, etc. Still, I'm really enjoying it and of course I'm watching a lot of piccolo on youtube and learning about a whole literature I didn't know. It's fun just from the music appreciation side. I think it will also have some lessons for Bb, especially being more aware of air and learning the shallower mouthpieces.