Why?

Tenring · Regular Member Joined: 18 Aug 2019 Posts: 80

I can't find anything wrong, but my second valve sometimes is slow to spring back up while air is going through it. I though it just might need a new spring. I ordered it and it did nothing except cause a little extra vibration so I put the old one back in. Any thoughts?
72' Getzen Severinsen

Thanks,

Charles

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject:

Take it apart and wipe or brush out the casing as well as clean the valve itself, rinse thoroughly, let dry, oil and try again. Actually, be a good time to clean the whole horn.

HTH - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

cheiden · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject:

Those can be a bugger to fix.

Here's what I'd try. Pretty routine stuff with a couple of tweaks.

1) Judiciously clean the horn. This includes warm water, mild detergent, and a good snake.
2) Be sure to clean the piston surfaces and ports. Inspect for any burrs on the port openings. It doesn't hurt if they're sharp but I had an older horn where it grew a thin burr that stuck out and caused a hang up.
3) Be sure to clean the tubes that connect to the cylinders including the short tubes between cylinders. It takes some care to scrub these out so be careful not deform something. Inspect the tubes connecting to the cylinder for burrs.
4) Rinse thoroughly and dry with a lint-free cloth
5) Apply a small amount of your preferred oil to the problem and insert it such that the alignment is correct with the valve guide. Holding the top cap against the finger button exercise the piston up and down (without rotating) raising the piston beyond its normal range of vertical travel.
6) Screw it down and repeat for the remaining pistons.

If this doesn't fix the problem repeat all of the above with a different oil..or two.

The only other thing I've seen is when the 2nd slide has been bumped and it impinges on the piston. You can test this by exercising the piston and applying pressure to the 2nd slide pulling it away from the cylinder. If that frees it up then you need a shop to true up the cylinder.

Good luck.
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Tenring · Regular Member Joined: 18 Aug 2019 Posts: 80

I just cleaned it good with some warm soapy water a week ago. I used some nylon brushes that came in a cleaning kit, but it wasn't a snake. I've been going to order one. Maybe someone can recommend a good one. I brushed the valves good, but not the holes in-between the valves. The previous owner had some pipe cleaners. Maybe those are what he used for in-between the valves? I suppose I can try to do a more thorough cleaning...ugh....I thought I did as I'm usually a little OCD...

What I did do just this evening was take the spring back out and put the valve back in just letting gravity press from each direction as I moved the piston in and out of the valves. Smooth feeling as if riding on ball bearings. I feel zero snags. Ugh... It doesn't do it all the time, but I know it shouldn't do that. It definitely feels like it is just the air that slows it a slight moment. I saw it with my eyes and could feel/hear it. My daughters Yamaha doesn't. Maybe Yamaha's have better valves?

Thanks,
Charles

Ronnman · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:43 pm Post subject:

What valve oil are you using? I was having a similar problem with a Leblanc horn. Switching to a thicker valve oil resolved the occasional sticking problem. I am using Hetman #3 Classic valve oil on this horn. I use a different valve oil on each of my 3 horns.
Ron

Tenring · Regular Member Joined: 18 Aug 2019 Posts: 80

I’m using regular Getzen valve oil.

LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:42 pm Post subject:

This could also be caused by a loose fitting valve. The oil film breaks and the valve sticks. A thicker oil formulated for vintage or loose valves might help.

Getzen · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1924

Question, were you having this same issue before the last cleaning? If not, it is possible the brushing pulled a burr loose on a casing port that wasn’t reaching the piston before.

Another possibility is the valve guide may be hanging up. Try swapping the guide from #1 or #3 with #2 and see what happens. Sometimes, with the older, molded guides, a spot on the surface can wear and cause a drag.

Of course, it could be that your piston is just worn. Considering the age of the trumpet that isn’t out of the realm of possibilities. 47 years is a long time.
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JayKosta · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Why?

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:53 am Post subject:

Some soaps leave residue... Did you use something like Dawn?

Is it possible that sometimes you are pressing it down at an angle so it hangs against the casing due to lateral pressure? Still likely to be some sort of contaminate on the valve or casing. I've twisted a rag or microfiber cloth and pulled it through the casings when I didn't have a brush. A nylon bottle brush from Wal-Mart, grocery, or other general store also works.
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

Comeback · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Jun 2011 Posts: 1143

I am no expert, but I have owned three of these fine horns, the last one being my current “daily driver’”. Some were older than yours and all showed evidence of prior use. Valves on all three worked flawlessly - they withstand a lot of use. I agree with a prior poster that your issue may have to do with consequences of a bumped second valve slide. Does this slide show evidence of damage? Hopefully a good tech could solve your problem.

Tenring · Regular Member Joined: 18 Aug 2019 Posts: 80

Tenring · Regular Member Joined: 18 Aug 2019 Posts: 80

Tenring · Regular Member Joined: 18 Aug 2019 Posts: 80

Comeback · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Jun 2011 Posts: 1143

I focused on the effect of a blow to the second valve slide as a possible root cause of your problem because in my experience Severinsens are quite easy to care for. Mine were never fussy about how I cleaned them, nor were they fussy about valve oil - I simply used (and continue to use) whatever valve oil I have. Also, if valves 1 and 3 work fine, it would seem unusual to me for you to have a wear issue with valve 2.

cheiden · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject:

Turkle · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:21 pm Post subject:

Every once in a while I'll get a sticky valve that cleaning doesn't fix. I take the horn over to Josh Landress and it's fixed in 15 minutes.

I've had to change oils a few times. I think that some tend to build up on the valves a bit so an oil that worked flawlessly at first will stop working after a while and you have to get a pro cleaning.

I know this is the easy answer, but any decent repair shop should be able to help you out in no time!
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Shifty · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject:

This is a dead easy fix, and you will save far more time than the fix costs. Take. It to a GOOD tech and get them to sort it out.

Problem solved, practice restarts.

Cheers

Andy
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