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deejaymushone
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 Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Lee |
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At some point in the 60s, Lee also played a Jet Tone mthpc.....these couldn’t be more different than a Bach, but guess what - he still sounded like Lee lol ! The sound really comes from our head - & then our chops - the gear is really the last, & prob least important part of the equation (but a fun part, tho lol!)....also - if you really want to get Lee’s sound, I would learn to toungue between my teeth like Lee does as well - that’s where the “pop” in his attacks come from, & his notes breaking up that sound like a blues cry, & also his puffed cheeks !
I love his music too —-
Jeremy Mush1
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
Last edited by deejaymushone on Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Leeway
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Joined: 06 Sep 2019
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:34 am Post subject: Re: Lee |
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| deejaymushone wrote: | At some point in the 60s, Lee also played a Jet Tone mthpc.....these couldn’t be more different than a Bach, but guess what - he still sounded like Lee lol ! The sound really comes from our head - & then our chops - the gear is really the last, & prob least important part of the equation (but a fun part, tho lol!)....also - if you really want to get Lee’s sound, I would learn to toungue beneath my teeth like Lee does as well - that’s where the “pop” in his attacks come from, & his notes breaking up that sound like a blues cry, & also his puffed cheeks !
I love his music too —-
Jeremy Mush1 |
Interesting! I've long wondered what is was that made Lee's articulation so unique. Some of the sounds he made on the horn, I've never heard anyone else do. I've got one in my head now and cant even begin to describe it! Sort of a "lull lull," sound that is just unmistakably Lee.
Tongueing beneath the teeth you say?!
As far as sound goes, he had a very pure one, listen to his ballads, the tone is rich and sweet. His choice of equipment I think did contribute a lot, you can hear him on a cheap cornet on Canadian tv in a video, the style is Lee, but the sound is cheap cornet!
He didn't play much or for long on a Comittee, the one Dizzy gave him more than likely was sold soon after. Everyone says he played a Besson, but some say look closer at the bell engraving and you'll see it's a Benge. Whichever it was, when Conn brought out the 8B Artist, the Besson or Benge was passed over for what he must've seen as a better horn, easier to play, I'd wager.
But you're right, Lee's style is unique and unmistakable, it's a study in itself! |
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deejaymushone
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Location: Flatbush
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Lee |
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Lee is playing his Dizzy Committee on Blue Trane - as much as I love Charisma & 6th Sense, as well as his last Blue Note studio LP as a leader, & the Live at the Lighthouse box, I still always come back to Blue Trane. His solos on the 2 versions of the title track alone are still to me are some of the greatest jazz trumpet of all time - he has perfectly distilled Fats & Brownie into his own voice & language, & has a perfect command of his horn.
Also - check out Lee’s live version of The Egyptian w/ the Jazz Messengers on YouTube (w/ John Gilmore, pre-Sun Ra!), & his version of Think! w/ Dr. Lonnie Smith on Lonnie Smith’s Blue Note LP of the same name. Lee is really struggling w/ his chops on those 2 & doesn’t have much range, but despite that, still has the endurance to play full length solos & really kicks ass & takes names. If you didn’t already know what he was capable of on the horn, you wouldn’t even know he was having real bad chop days on those. Lee’s bad chop days would be most jazz trumpet players amazing days lol.
All the best,
Jeremy Mush1
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E |
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Evinerate
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Lee Morgan played a Martin Committee that Dizzy gave him on Coltrane's Blue Train album in 1957.
If you saw that 1958 Belgium gig he did with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers on Youtube, he was playing either a Benge or Besson Postwar, pretty hard to tell from the video because a postwar Besson trumpet would have top mounted fixed 3rd slide rings and also have a Couenson style water key on the 3rd slide but there isn't waterkey on the horn he was playing on that concert gig even though the horn had a fixed 3rd slide ring on top. He might as well been playing a Benge. So for the 1958-early 60s he was playing either a Benge or Besson.
He switched to a Conn Connstellation/Conn 8B Lightweight Artist trumpet sometime in the mid 60s.
He played an Olds Ambassador Trumpet in the Cornbread album in 1967.
He also switched to an Olds Ambassador Cornet during those years too, it was rumored that he had to pawn most if not all of his trumpets for drug money. |
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deejaymushone
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Lee |
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| Evinerate wrote: | Lee Morgan played a Martin Committee that Dizzy gave him on Coltrane's Blue Train album in 1957.
If you saw that 1958 Belgium gig he did with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers on Youtube, he was playing either a Benge or Besson Postwar, pretty hard to tell from the video because a postwar Besson trumpet would have top mounted fixed 3rd slide rings and also have a Couenson style water key on the 3rd slide but there isn't waterkey on the horn he was playing on that concert gig even though the horn had a fixed 3rd slide ring on top. He might as well been playing a Benge. So for the 1958-early 60s he was playing either a Benge or Besson.
He switched to a Conn Connstellation/Conn 8B Lightweight Artist trumpet sometime in the mid 60s.
He played an Olds Ambassador Trumpet in the Cornbread album in 1967.
He also switched to an Olds Ambassador Cornet during those years too, it was rumored that he had to pawn most if not all of his trumpets for drug money. |
TH needs a “Like” button - ty for the cool info!
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E |
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trumpetbiker
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Location: vancouver, wa
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Conn Connstellation 38B, or close to it, is what it LOOKS like on a 1965 video w/Art Blakey JM on youtube. he could've played on a York Cornet with a matching mouthpiece and made it sound the same as any other horn. |
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plankowner110
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetbiker wrote: | | Conn Connstellation 38B, or close to it, is what it LOOKS like on a 1965 video w/Art Blakey JM on youtube. he could've played on a York Cornet with a matching mouthpiece and made it sound the same as any other horn. |
Conn 8B Artist model trumpet on that video
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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Brent
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Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:09 pm Post subject: Conn 8B |
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Freddie Hubbard and Woody Shaw also played the 8B in the mid 60's. I think Hub's using an 8B here (if not, who cares: it's Freddie Hubbard being scary good):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnWRV_X5bKQ
In the early 2000's, I saw Jim Rotondi using an 8B, and he was smokin' on that horn! Several months later, the horn he used was on Ebay. Wish I could've bought it a the time!!
Brent S
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Brent |
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deejaymushone
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Location: Flatbush
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Conn 8B |
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| Brent wrote: | | In the early 2000's, I saw Jim Rotondi using an 8B, and he was smokin' on that horn! Several months later, the horn he used was on Ebay. Wish I could've bought it a the time!! |
Hey - you don't need to get the same 8B that Jim spat into ! Conn was very consistent in their output and QA/QC, and I am sure if you get an 8B from the same year (there are usually a bunch on sale on eBay - this is not a rare or hard to find horn), it will play pretty much the same, provided its in good shape, etc.
All the best,
Jeremy Mush1
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E |
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3620
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Conn 8B |
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| Brent wrote: | Freddie Hubbard and Woody Shaw also played the 8B in the mid 60's. I think Hub's using an 8B here (if not, who cares: it's Freddie Hubbard being scary good):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnWRV_X5bKQ
In the early 2000's, I saw Jim Rotondi using an 8B, and he was smokin' on that horn! Several months later, the horn he used was on Ebay. Wish I could've bought it a the time!!
Brent S |
Correct. Conn 8B.
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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Ozzbo
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm using my '64 Conn 8B on a club date gig today.
Absolutely love it's ability to play nice and smokey as well as scream loudly all depending on mouthpiece used !!
Ozzy |
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Ozzbo
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm using my '64 Conn 8B on a club date gig today.
Absolutely love it's ability to play nice and smokey as well as scream loudly all depending on mouthpiece used !!
Ozzy |
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Evinerate
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chapahi
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:52 am Post subject: |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6zppSR91eM
The picture here looks like a Strad. Lee played a bunch of different horns.
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Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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Leeway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| On the cover of the Infinity Album, Lee's horn appears to be Besson Meha or similar. Or maybe a US made copy? Bach? |
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deejaymushone
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: Lee’s horn ? |
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Just started playing a 1950 Olds Ambassador - Presentation Model a few weeks ago - for me, it really has that Lee / Brownie kind of sound right away, w/ out trying or adjusting anything ... but as a resistance player, I have gotten used to smaller bore horns, & I sort of feel like I am falling into it. It’s funny - on the threads here about it, people talk about it feeling stuffy, etc., but I think it’s just the gap - I am playing on it w/ a pc w/ almost no gap, & it’s almost too open ..... (!) .... need to try some different backbores with it maybe...
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
Last edited by deejaymushone on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chapahi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Leeway wrote: | | On the cover of the Infinity Album, Lee's horn appears to be Besson Meha or similar. Or maybe a US made copy? Bach? |
Do besson Meha's have double tuning slide braces?
link
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Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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Liberty Lips
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| chapahi wrote: | Do besson Meha's have double tuning slide braces?
link |
All the Besson Meha's I've seen have a single tuning slide brace. The trumpet in your link is a Kanstul made Besson Meha from the late 1980's. |
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Mike Prestage
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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The horn on the Infinity cover doesn't look much like any Besson I'm aware of. It's either a Bach or some obscure, very Bach-like horn. At first glance it looks like an Elkhart Bach Strad. Looking closely, I'm not so sure - maybe it's an atypical or modified New York Strad, or a Mercury or Mercedes (these seem to be all over the place design wise).
Mike |
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Leeway
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Prestage wrote: | The horn on the Infinity cover doesn't look much like any Besson I'm aware of. It's either a Bach or some obscure, very Bach-like horn. At first glance it looks like an Elkhart Bach Strad. Looking closely, I'm not so sure - maybe it's an atypical or modified New York Strad, or a Mercury or Mercedes (these seem to be all over the place design wise).
Mike |
I stand corrected!
There sure are a lot of trumpets out there to get a handle on telling them apart.
I've had the same horn for over 20 years and most of my exploration of the different makes and models was done before the internet was in common use. Living at the other end of the world meant you only had what other players had and what you saw in the music shops to go on, which back them was pretty limited in a country with 1/20th the population of the US. I'm always grateful for the benefit of others knowledge and the access we now have to that knowledge.
The more I learn, the more I reaise what little I know. |
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