Bach 2 1/2 c for a beginner?

[Zed]

Hi All,

long time lurker first time poster. Not sure if this should be in the mouthpiece forum or the comeback player one. Mods -feel free to move.

I started playing cornet in a brass band at about age 12 but did not really get into it until after braces at 15. Getting private lessons from the bandmaster who was a classically trained trumpeter (and national soprano cornet champion). I think he played a bach 1 c on trumpet but he started me on a bach 2 1/2 c which I played on cornet (and trumpet when I bought one at age 17).

My question is this: Given what is in the Bach mouthpiece guide about it being for a muscular embouchure, was this a strange choice for a starting mouthpiece?

I only ever did exam (5th grade AMEB) and was playing stuff like 2nd movement of the Hayden, the Goedeke study (not sure of the spelling - the one with all the double tonguing) attempting the rest of the Hayden (never nailed the e flat) and had a range to high c but no higher. After school finished I essentially had no further lessons but went on a bit of a mouthpiece safari as I got into jazz and was concerned that my tone was too classical and that my range was not good enough. I went initially to a giardinelli 7M on the recommendation of a commercial player who taught at a jazz camp I went to at age 18 and then to a bach 5v for about 2 years. When I got a job after university the trumpet was essentially put away but with periods of a few months every few years where I would get it out and practice like mad only to put it down again when life got in the way. The mouthpiece safari continued to a bach 5c, 3c, 3c megatone and finally a monette B2s3 ( for about 2 months last year).

I'm now at a point where I may be able to do some practice on a more regular basis and my 2nd question is - should I go back to the 2 1/2 or would a different piece be of more use given that my practice time will be limited by family and work commitments.

My aim is to play small group jazz and the only horn I have ever played is my yamaha 6445. (I think that's the number - the large bore one, bought second hand in 1987).

Apologies for the long post. Any views on mouthpiece choice (or anything you think relevant) would be most welcome.

Zed.

[delano]

A Yamaha YTR6445 is a C trumpet, not very suited for small group jazz. Maybe it's a 6345, that is a B flat horn and probably you own then the 6345 without a letter (no 6345G). The 6345 is an excellent horn with a 0.463 bore, a goldbrass bell and leadpipe and excellent intonation. If you own really a 6445 you have a problem. For the mouthpiece I can't give you advice, that's too personal. Beware that your mp is not too big, you will experience that with very bad endurance, airy sound rather quick, and possibly pain.

[abontrumpet]

People are all different when it comes to what mouthpiece works well for them. E.g., I can't use a much smaller rim than a 1C for Bb trumpet.

So if you can pick up the 2 1/2 C and you feel comfortable on it, and get the sound you want within the first couple of minutes, then go for it. If it's something that you only feel great on it 15-20 minutes into playing it, then find a different one. If you aren't keeping up your chops 100% then you want something that works right out of the gate.

Yamaha 6345 will work! 6xxx series was one of the best they ever made IMO.

[zaferis]

You should play the mouthpiece that suits you. In feel, sound, response etc.

A Bach 2 1/2 would not be my fist choice to try but we are all different. Bach 3C, and/or pieces in this size range or even back to the 7C, are more along the lines of what I'd suggest.

Noting that you have a Yamaha trumpet, I'd throw in a Yamaha 14B4 to a possible mouthpiece. This is a well balanced piece that I've had lots of success with quite a number of students.


The process can be problematic, it would definitely help to have a teacher or other trumpet mentor help you out... I suggest you pull them all out, play a few things (the same on each) get your first impression-which do you like the best for how it sits on your chops, tone, tuning, clarity of articulation... put the one you like best on your trumpet and the rest in a box. Stay with that one and practice.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[delano]

The model number of your Yamaha will be on the second valve casing just under the leadpipe (on the right side of the trumpet).

[JayKosta]

When testing mouthpieces, the 'deciding factor' is how well it works in the LAST 10 minutes of the session, not the first 10 minutes!

Don't believe the old shoe store line about - "It'll be fine after they break-in".
Yes, you can train yourself to use an over/undersized mouthpiece - but it's better to get one that fits comfortably from the start.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[JayKosta]

When testing mouthpieces, the 'deciding factor' is how well it works in the LAST 10 minutes of the session, not the first 10 minutes!

Don't believe the old shoe store line about - "It'll be fine after they break-in".
Yes, you can train yourself to use an over/undersized mouthpiece - but it's better to get one that fits comfortably from the start.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Zed]

[Zed]

Thanks All for your replies.

It did strike me as strange that the bach 2 1/2 c was rarely mentioned as either a mouthpiece used by beginners or used at all.

One of the reasons for my mouthpiece safari was really me searching for a sound I wanted. i was always worried that my sound was too "brassy" when I really wanted a sound like Wynton got on his monette or Miles' 50s tone (e.g on the Cookin' etc) - this was before there were the huge range of internet resources available that there are today plus the fact I was at the arse end of the world so I was really experimenting with no knowledge. I think my only reference was the bach mouthpiece guide.

The other thing that I noticed with the 2 1/2 C was that my single toungued articulations were not as clear as i liked. In other posts I've noticed people talking about the alpha angle of the 2 1/2C and now wonder whether this was a factor. I did notice the when I moved to the 5v that problem resolved and I also noticed the thread on v-eeing out the mouthpiece so I'm wondering whether it was the c cup that did this (although it didn't happen on the monette either). With that in mind I was also thinking of something like a 3B

I like the idea of picking them all up and testing them for a few minutes. I'll try that once I've got some semblance of chops back.

That being said I suspect the real answer is "it doesn't matter - just do some practice and get a teacher".

Zed

[bagmangood]