Mouthpiece Upgrade Paths

E_Smith · Regular Member Joined: 08 Oct 2019 Posts: 47

Hello all. I've got a question that I hope you can give me some answers for. As you can tell by the title of the thread, I'm looking for a new mouthpiece. Currently, I'm using a King 7C, which can be found at : https://www.ellismusic.com/p-15872-king-7c-silver-plated-trumpet-mouthpiece.aspx
I can play a solid high G (concert F5), and a pretty okay high C (on a good day). I can play a little higher, but don't expect me to do it in the music. Don't expect a high C from me either (unless I'm feeling good/cocky). That's my problem. My lips can get tired pretty quickly. (That's what happens with deeper mp's, or so I'm told). But if you give me a 5-second breather, and I can play a bit better. I'm wondering if a different mouthpiece could perhaps be less stressful on my chops and perhaps help my high range (a little). I've been looking at Yamaha's Bobby Shew Lead mouthpiece for a potential upgrade, but I don't want to waste $40 on a mouthpiece that won't benefit me. Well... that's all I've got. Opinions?

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

Sorry, there is no such thing as a "magic" mouthpiece. The problems you describe are related to the details of your physical condition/embouchure/technique. They are not related to the mouthpiece. There is no mouthpiece that can fix weakness or faulty fundamentals and the issues you describe are all related to weak/faulty/ineffective/inefficient/self defeating fundamentals.

A mouthpiece change will surely bring some change (all mouthpiece changes do that) but you won't really find solutions to fundamental problems in a mouthpiece change. To resolve the issues you describe you have to increase your physical strength and develop sound fundamentals.
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JayKosta · Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject:

Those elusive 'fundamentals' for increasing range and endurance - here are my thoughts.

1) The lip MUST be 'able to vibrate'.
That means the lip can't be smashed flat by mouthpiece pressure with the goal of squeaking out a high note! Also the lip can't be stretched thin like a rubber band to make it higher pitched - that leads to lip pain and injury.

Just about everyone suggests 'use less mouthpiece pressure' - but how to do that?

For me, it means transferring some of the mpc rim pressure off of the upper lip and onto the lower lip by pressing more firmly with the bottom lip and teeth - through the use of jaw muscles to apply FORWARD lower lip/teeth pressure onto the mpc rim.
By slightly reducing the rim pressure on the upper lip, it allows the lip to vibrate and produce a note.

Playing higher notes reliably with good sound and endurance IS NOT done with rim pressure. It's a matter of producing tension in the lip tissue that will vibrate at the desired pitch, making sure the lip is capable of vibrating, and producing enough air power to vibrate the lip.

2) About 'air power' - Your throat has to be open for the air to go through, don't choke it off by tensing your neck . There are lots of words used in an attempt to describe how to blow - such as 'air pressure', 'air flow', 'thick/fat air', 'air speed', etc.
The important part is that an adequate amount of air needs to pass through the lip opening to cause vibrations. Use whatever physical sensations work for you to help start and keep air going through, and vibrating your lip.

Jay
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cheiden · Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject:

It seems to me a bad idea to change mouthpieces just to facilitate your upper register. And going to a piece as specialized as the Shew Lead without regard for all the other playing priorities is probably a mistake.

Bottom line is that you're going to have to experiment to see if a piece other than the 7C will give you an overall benefit. You can save money if you have friends with pieces you can try. You can also score many pieces used relatively cheap online. There are stores with return policies that would allow you to try and return what doesn't work out.

Best bet would be to hook up with a teacher who can evaluate your current gear and give you directed recommendations on how to proceed. And if you do try a piece that actually hurts your overall ability a teacher will tell you so, even if you can't tell.
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Brad361 · Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject:

In addition to many of the above comments, there’s this: how much do you practice, and what do you practice? Are you taking private lessons?

There are no mouthpiece related shortcuts, period. It sounds to me as if you’re trying to fix register and endurance problems with a new mouthpiece....not gonna happen. It’s GREAT that you have had a COPD recovery, I would suggest you pair that recovery with lessons and practice.

Best of luck!

Brad
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E_Smith · Regular Member Joined: 08 Oct 2019 Posts: 47

When I read what I wrote, it does seem that I think a mouthpiece will suddenly unlock some hidden potential in me. I realize that's not at all the case. I also realize that I'd be a better and more developed player if I devoted more time to practicing. I guess I'm just wondering about the benefits of using different mouthpieces.

Turkle · Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:41 am Post subject:

Based on the language in your post, I'm assuming you're a fairly young beginner. Unless your teacher tells you differently, you're much better off just sticking with your mouthpiece and learning to play the darn instrument.

If you can't play a reliable high C, it's not the mouthpiece. It's your technique. A mouthpiece won't help you one bit. If you have good technique, you will be able to play a high C on any mouthpiece anyone hands you, ever.

So: if your teacher recommends a different mouthpiece, use it. But you're much better off not worrying about the gear and just learning to play with a good embouchure.
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Brad361 · Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:41 am Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:38 am Post subject:

Try a Curry 3C. Still produces a nice tone, and is much easier to play than most 7C sized moutpieces.
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theslawdawg · Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

J-Walk · Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:24 am Post subject:

OP,

Some good advice here, some not so good. None of us can make a proper suggestion sight unseen. So unless you are already a professional player that can articulate more of the real issues you are encountering on the horn and have a strong self-awareness of your own true abilities...

...you can seek hands on excellent professional instruction, or you can waste energy messing with equipment. If I were you, I would choose the best instruction you can find. That person can make equipment recommendations if needed at this point in your progress.

Some of the ‘tweakers’ online like here at TH are professionals that are already to a point of successfully self-guiding their trumpet playing progress, so they can sift through the good and bad advice offered online more easily; some are well-meaning but don’t even have a handle on their own playing; and then some are pretenders that can’t play. Always know your source before accepting advice.

Good luck in your trumpet journey.
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A few mouthpieces that fit my face and horns

Brad361 · Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject:

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:36 am Post subject:

Vin DiBona · Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject:

I agree with Dale. It would be a very reasonable option to try one and work from there.
It is my belief that there certainly is a mouthpiece that really works for an average player. The trick is having enough experience and skill to understand what you are trying to achieve.
Pros often have an arsenal, but the pieces generally are extremely similar, just having slightly different parameters needed for the job at hand.
Face it, there are some "teachers" out there who aren't really that great who teach wrong ways to play and know little about proper equipment fit.
In the 30 or so mouthpieces have here I have everything from a Schilke 19 to a GR62S. I can "play" any of them, but some work much better than those extremes.
Ever look at the mouthpieces for sale in the marketplace? Many of those for sale are on the extreme orchestral simply because so many think that is their magic piece and most can't handle them.
The mouthpiece I have played for years is a GR e65M. That is roughly the size of of a 7 but with a wider, softer bite rim giving a 3C feel. I do carry 3 other mouthpieces, but they are used only for specific purposes.
R. Tomasek

cgaiii · Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:41 pm Post subject:

Saw an interesting video by Jason Harrelson, who is a member, about mistakes made in mouthpiece selection.
Agree that there is no magic to unlock playing ability but there are good and bad ones for each of us. The bewildering scope of available mouthpieces tells us that many people are trying to solve problems with mouthpieces. Making sense of it is difficult
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mreb_9bJOc0
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wkh · Regular Member Joined: 31 May 2019 Posts: 19

This explanation/demonstration about what Jay says might be useful to the OP, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGm1MAT-ttQ&list=PLXilMNxg7MXxK20AOAOF4XNHRD6lnqOp-&index=2&t=0s

2) About 'air power' - Your throat has to be open for the air to go through, don't choke it off by tensing your neck . There are lots of words used in an attempt to describe how to blow - such as 'air pressure', 'air flow', 'thick/fat air', 'air speed', etc.
The important part is that an adequate amount of air needs to pass through the lip opening to cause vibrations. Use whatever physical sensations work for you to help start and keep air going through, and vibrating your lip.

Jay[/quote]

Mike Prestage · Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:05 am Post subject:

In addition to all the sensible advice above about not making a mouthpiece change at all, and not expecting genuinely useful personal advice on mouthpiece choice over the internet:

I's worth bearing in mind that, for trumpet players in general, the Shew Lead is very unlikely to make sense if they're just looking for a mouthpiece that fits them a bit better than a 7C. It's a pretty specialised design which a great many people would struggle to play at all, and even amongst those who do use it, it would typically only be for high-energy playing e.g. big band lead. If you got good results with it in, say, a concert band, you'd be a real outlier.

Mike