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beema
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Joined: 13 Nov 2019
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: Need help identifying Bach Trumpet!! |
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I found a relatively nice looking Bach trumpet, but I can't find the serial number anywhere, there doesn't seem to be a model number, and I don't have other info. Can anybody help?
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 1021
Location: East Asia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| That looks like a fake Bach to me--appearance resembles a pro model (3rd valve ring attached), but waterkeys look like their intermediate level. I think only their student models are made in China, and I the serial number is computer etched rather than engraved. Where did you get it and how much did you pay? It may still be an okay trumpet. |
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Looks fake to me.
Brad
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:18 am Post subject: |
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While I agree this is most likely a fake, it's worth bearing in mind that the range of genuine Bach branded products can be pretty confusing and sometimes includes stuff not sold in the USA. I wouldn't be too surprised if this turned out to be a legit Bach student trumpet - something comparable to the TR500. Here's an example of an intermediate level Bach, sold by several reliable UK suppliers, that could easily be assumed to be a fake:
https://www.johnpacker.co.uk/prod/bach-337-bb-trumpet
Mike |
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JeffM729
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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Parrish, FL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Fake Bachs abound from China. Not that I've seen every Bach, but the fixed 3rd finger ring with the spit valve looks suspicious.
Here's a fake Bach you can get for $299 on eBay.
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely a fake Bach.
Bach has made some beginner trumpets not in the US, but they are student models with adjustable 3rd slide rings and single tuning slide braces.
This one is trying to look like a Strad, but is stamped "Made in China." That was considerate of them. Couldn't be any easier, 100% a faux Bach.
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | Definitely a fake Bach.
Bach has made some beginner trumpets not in the US, but they are student models with adjustable 3rd slide rings and single tuning slide braces.
This one is trying to look like a Strad, but is stamped "Made in China." That was considerate of them. Couldn't be any easier, 100% a faux Bach. |
While I agree this is very likely to be a fake, I don't think the combination of the fixed ring and Chinese manufacture is a useful indicator. If it was, every TR500 out there would have to be a fake! I wrote more on the difficulty of being sure about fake vs. genuine Bach products in my post above.
Mike |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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Joined: 15 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: fake bach |
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The serial number being stencilled on instead of engraved leads me to believe it is fake. All the cheap chinese trumpets I bought had the serial number stencilled.
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Aspeyrer
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Joined: 18 Nov 2019
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure it’s “fake.” Bach makes trumpets in china. Why would they stamp “made in china” on a fake? My students have brought in horns looking like this. Not sure about the model specs |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Aspeyrer wrote: | | Not sure it’s “fake.” Bach makes trumpets in china. Why would they stamp “made in china” on a fake? My students have brought in horns looking like this. Not sure about the model specs |
Why would they stamp "made in china" on a fake? To make it look like the legitimate Bachs that have that stamped on them. 
While you might be right that it is not a "fake", I think a little more than criminals wont expose the country of origin and some of my students have bought them, maybe or maybe not knowing they are a fake, is needed. |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Prestage wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | Definitely a fake Bach.
Bach has made some beginner trumpets not in the US, but they are student models with adjustable 3rd slide rings and single tuning slide braces.
This one is trying to look like a Strad, but is stamped "Made in China." That was considerate of them. Couldn't be any easier, 100% a faux Bach. |
While I agree this is very likely to be a fake, I don't think the combination of the fixed ring and Chinese manufacture is a useful indicator. If it was, every TR500 out there would have to be a fake! I wrote more on the difficulty of being sure about fake vs. genuine Bach products in my post above.
Mike |
Well, I dismissed your post, but thought I'd do a quick google search on TR500's. While I thought they all had adjustable 3rd slide rings - the ones I've seen do - it seems it might be possible that some of them are fixed. So, while I too agree it's very likely a fake (check out the Bach engraving on the bell... hmmm.....) I will admit that it's possible it's a TR500 made in China.
I will also say that while the TR500 is a genuine Bach, it's likely not a large step-up from a potential faux Bach. Many of the ones I seen and handled were not.
| Mike Prestage wrote: | While I agree this is most likely a fake, it's worth bearing in mind that the range of genuine Bach branded products can be pretty confusing and sometimes includes stuff not sold in the USA. I wouldn't be too surprised if this turned out to be a legit Bach student trumpet - something comparable to the TR500. Here's an example of an intermediate level Bach, sold by several reliable UK suppliers, that could easily be assumed to be a fake:
https://www.johnpacker.co.uk/prod/bach-337-bb-trumpet
Mike |
Huh. They definitely don't sell these over here across the pond - I have a Bach/Conn/Selmer vendor catalog at work. Is it Elkhart made?
I had no idea that Bach made random models for overseas markets, I wonder if it's some sort of TR200/Omega sort of thing....
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 722
Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:21 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Crazy Finn"] | Mike Prestage wrote: |
Well, I dismissed your post, but thought I'd do a quick google search on TR500's. While I thought they all had adjustable 3rd slide rings - the ones I've seen do - it seems it might be possible that some of them are fixed. So, while I too agree it's very likely a fake (check out the Bach engraving on the bell... hmmm.....) I will admit that it's possible it's a TR500 made in China.
I will also say that while the TR500 is a genuine Bach, it's likely not a large step-up from a potential faux Bach. Many of the ones I seen and handled were not.
| Mike Prestage wrote: | While I agree this is most likely a fake, it's worth bearing in mind that the range of genuine Bach branded products can be pretty confusing and sometimes includes stuff not sold in the USA. I wouldn't be too surprised if this turned out to be a legit Bach student trumpet - something comparable to the TR500. Here's an example of an intermediate level Bach, sold by several reliable UK suppliers, that could easily be assumed to be a fake:
https://www.johnpacker.co.uk/prod/bach-337-bb-trumpet
Mike |
Huh. They definitely don't sell these over here across the pond - I have a Bach/Conn/Selmer vendor catalog at work. Is it Elkhart made?
I had no idea that Bach made random models for overseas markets, I wonder if it's some sort of TR200/Omega sort of thing.... |
More than possible! This version is the only one I was aware of: https://thompsonmusic.com/product/bachtr500aristocratbbtrumpet/
My comment about 'every TR500' was ill-informed though. Having just looked online, I can see that you're correct and the adjustable-ring ones are also out there (and possibly in greater numbers).
I think the OP is long gone, but for what little it might be worth... I wasn't trying to suggest this trumpet is specifically a TR500, or that it's a better horn than the average fake. I was just pointing out that there's a big enough variety of genuine Bach-branded horns out there that you can't be certain something's fake simply because it doesn't match a familiar model.
I'm with you that, with this particular horn, the bell marking without the word 'Vincent' is pretty suspicious. I don't know for certain that it's never been used on genuine stuff though. I was also dubious of the ornate engraving but it looks like there was a student model with a 'deluxe engraving' at one time, called the TR400. A quick search didn't turn up a dealer website that still had a photo though.
I don't know anything about the 337 other than that they exist and are sold by several legit Bach dealers so can safely be assumed to be genuine. There's also a more expensive intermediate model called the VBS1.
Mike |
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Steve Hollahan
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Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: Fake Bach |
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Bach made a lot of models. One of my favorites is the Mercedes 1. Bach valves and a 2 piece Bach 37 bell copy and 25 leadpipe.
This looks like a small production 500, very popular with Mexican musicians at Sam Ash store where I worked.
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