• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

young Doc Severinsen's high range


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> High Range Development
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JVL
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 892
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: young Doc Severinsen's high range Reply with quote

hello
i had a conversation with a friend and told him that at the beginning of his career, Doc was already a virtuoso but not a high note player, until, what i read from Mr Scodwell, he met Lenny Morrison.
I've not been able to find again all the story about this period of his life, why he decided to developphis high register (because of his work with Maynard ?) and how things changed...
If somebody gets infos or Mr Scodwell wants to enlighten me
best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
solo soprano
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 856
Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Severinsen began playing trumpet when he was 7. At 14 he had the “brass” to audition for Tommy Dorsey – who was short a trumpeter due to the millions of men who were called up for military service during World War Two.

Doc Severinsen: “So, I walk into Tommy Dorsey’s dressing room in Portland, Oregon at the Paramount Theatre and he said ‘Well hi there, young man. Watcha’ got in the case?’ I said, ‘I got my coronet.” My voice was changing. And he says, ‘Do you mind if I take a look at it?’ I said, ‘Go to work.’ He took it out and he promptly played two of the most difficult coronet solos ever attempted by any human being. Never missed a note and didn’t work up a bead of sweat. It almost would break your heart if you’re another trumpet player. And he’s not even a trumpet player. He’s a trombone player…the greatest ever.”

As sad as that story was, there is a happy ending. Tommy Dorsey told Doc to go home, finish school and come back to see him when he was a little older – and a lot better. And that’s just what Doc Severinsen did. He ended up playing with Tommy Dorsey and Harry James before landing in New York to work as a staff musician at NBC.
_________________
Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tony Scodwell
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1954

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Doc and high notes Reply with quote

I don't remember Doc ever working with Harry James. Charlie Barnet and Tommy Dorsey for sure and the NYC studios, NBC staff is all correct.

He told me he wanted to learn how to play in the upper register during a period when he was still doing the Tonight Show in LA and many performances in Las Vegas and indeed went to see Lenny Morrison in Chicago. He also told me that he felt his sound suffered but he sure played some amazing things during that period. Later on he forsake the upper register somewhat and concentrated more on his Pops gigs with Phoenix, Milwaukee and Minnesota and many other orchestras. I will say this though, when I was his pops first trumpet player and road manager, one thing was always placed on his music stand if the program had some things for him to play in the upper register and that was his Bob Reeves "Zinger" mouthpiece. He could change very discreetly from his 5C to the Zinger without the audience noticing. It certainly worked.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVL
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 892
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the replies.
So Mr Scodwell, that was in the early 60, and not the 50' when Doc & Maynard recorded for Perez Prado...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
solo soprano
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 856
Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Doc and high notes Reply with quote

Tony Scodwell wrote:
I don't remember Doc ever working with Harry James.


"In the course of his career as a bandleader, Harry himself hired some top-notched musicians. One was a young Doc Severinsen who later said he thought Harry was the best trumpet player ever." https://www.coopertoons.com/caricatures/harryjames_bio.html
_________________
Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MF Fan
Veteran Member


Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 397
Location: The Great White North

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: young Doc Severinsen's high range Reply with quote

JVL wrote:
I've not been able to find again all the story about this period of his life, why he decided to developp his high register (because of his work with Maynard ?) and how things changed...


Maynard and Doc studied under the same teacher for a period of time in the '40s, Benny Baker. Doc studied with him in NY, and Maynard studied with him in Montreal when Benny traveled up there monthly to work with students at the Montreal Conservatory. As the legend goes, Maynard had already dialed in his chops at that point, and Maynard later found out Benny told the other instructors,"Listen, as far as the Ferguson kid goes, don't even talk to him about embouchure."
_________________
MF Fan
__________
L.A. Benge 5x
Holton MF3
Lead Trumpet - My Basement Jazz Orchestra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony Scodwell
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1954

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Harry and Doc Reply with quote

Gee, I worked many years with both Harry and Doc and neither mentioned that Doc played on Harry's band. Let's see...Doc got off the road and settled in NYC about 1949 and did studio work later after Latin bands. He was on staff at NBC starting with the Steve Allen show and through the years with the various Tonight Show personalities and became the leader after Skitch Henderson. Harry was on the road in the early fifties with a small band after the heyday of big bands was slowing down but soon re-organized his big band and found steady work in Las Vegas. I'd be interested to see something more detailed regarding Doc on Harry's band. Perhaps a payroll or discography listing sidemen if Doc recorded with Harry. The only detailed compilation of sidemen who played with Harry that I have in my collection has no mention of Doc.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adagiotrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: young Doc Severinsen's high range Reply with quote

MF Fan wrote:
JVL wrote:
I've not been able to find again all the story about this period of his life, why he decided to developp his high register (because of his work with Maynard ?) and how things changed...


Maynard and Doc studied under the same teacher for a period of time in the '40s, Benny Baker. Doc studied with him in NY, and Maynard studied with him in Montreal when Benny traveled up there monthly to work with students at the Montreal Conservatory. As the legend goes, Maynard had already dialed in his chops at that point, and Maynard later found out Benny told the other instructors,"Listen, as far as the Ferguson kid goes, don't even talk to him about embouchure."


I had heard this same story years ago. It was while studying with Benny Baker that Doc really developed his huge sound and incredible range.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVL
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 892
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks to all.
Doc should write or make write his biography !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2579

PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think young Doc had a weak range, by the time he was 20 or so he had an on-the-gig F/G range which was probably better than average at that time. He touches on a G a couple of times in the video of him playing with Charlie Barnet. But I think he just wasn't the go-to guy for high-note playing, he didn't have the range he had a couple of decades later.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KennyC123
Veteran Member


Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 141
Location: Morristown, TN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP, you may be interested in watching these two videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llQ2lah7GKw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3trlwMvmLc
_________________
Kenny

Stomvi Big Bell S3
Always remember that you are unique just like everyone else!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listen to the video with Doc, Bobby S, and A. Visutti. No doubt who the lead players were in that video. Doc leads the band up to a certain range I think A, then his sound changes, Bobby S is obviously a lead player who has great ride skills and holds his lead sound higher than Docs, but he’s not as cutting as Doc to the point where Doc ranges out. Vis is technically amazing but never achieves the free cut the others do. To me both Bobby and Doc could make anyone’s ~top 50 or 100 lead players. Who you would rather have would depend on the book, and whether you need improv. To me Doc has that balls out style Up to a register line (about 5) that makes a good lead sound.
Just cutting hairs, I’d b happy to play an e like any of them.
Rod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jdleggett
New Member


Joined: 09 Apr 2020
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:47 am    Post subject: Doc Reply with quote

I only played one gig with him and he wanted to play my trumpet and he let me play his but I wasn't supposed to use the valves. He was using a super shallow mouthpiece and he had amazing range, technique and volume, but the sound wasn't so great. When he was playing, he seemed to have a lot of air escaping outside the mouthpiece. Don't know if that was a thing for him, or just something he was doing at the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EricV
Veteran Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 227
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am reading a book called Trumpet Blues - The Life of Harry James by Peter Levinson and Doc is mentioned a few times but never in relation to playing with the James band, rather the contrary, it describes Doc as having a keen appreciation of Harrys playing and when their paths did cross, Doc always took the opportunity to as advice.

He states that when Harry told him to get more top lip into his mouthpiece his playing started getting much easier. If he did play with Harry, one would think it would be mentioned in the book as it lists band members over various decades so i think Tony Scodwell is correct. The book is a great read by the way!

Cheers from oz and stay safe

EricV
_________________
CG Benge trumpet
Yamaha Xeno Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4800

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benny Baker is someone I'd sure like to know more about!
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
deesson
Regular Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 35
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRu5m45Wz2c
and capture the images around 2:47 and 4:08 and compare them, Doc is using two different embouchures. The young Doc, a downstream, 3(B?) and apparently somewhere he switched to a IV upstream. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.
If I knew how to post the images I would.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2579

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deesson wrote:
If you check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRu5m45Wz2c
and capture the images around 2:47 and 4:08 and compare them, Doc is using two different embouchures. The young Doc, a downstream, 3(B?) and apparently somewhere he switched to a IV upstream. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.
If I knew how to post the images I would.

He definitely changed the horn angle and mouthpiece placement. In the above clip the previous Harry James anecdote notwithstanding he had a very high placement compared to years later and also his horn angle raised up.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul Tomashefsky
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 733
Location: Worcester, MA

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s actually a movie coming out. Was supposed to be released back in March but cancelled due to the Covid-19 virus. I believe the title is “it’s never too late.” About Doc’s life and playing career. One of my younger private students and I had the good fortune of being interviewed by the film crew, at the Shires Trumpet factory in Massachusetts! And my student Will got to play for Doc, on a Blues I composed for my jazz band kids. Doc’s daughter Nancy asked me to sign a release if they decided to use it in the film! pretty cool, I have a photo with her! I hope Will’s playing gets in the movie, I didn’t see it on the Trailer, so who knows.

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=949598462167888&_rdr
_________________
"Life Beats down and CRUSHES the soul, and Art reminds you that you have one" Stella Adler

"Music washes away the Dust of Everyday Life"
Art Blakey

"If you practice...It will come" Field of Trumpet Dreams
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2579

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Tomashefsky wrote:
There’s actually a movie coming out. Was supposed to be released back in March but cancelled due to the Covid-19 virus. I believe the title is “it’s never too late.” About Doc’s life and playing career. One of my younger private students and I had the good fortune of being interviewed by the film crew, at the Shires Trumpet factory in Massachusetts! And my student Will got to play for Doc, on a Blues I composed for my jazz band kids. Doc’s daughter Nancy asked me to sign a release if they decided to use it in the film! pretty cool, I have a photo with her! I hope Will’s playing gets in the movie, I didn’t see it on the Trailer, so who knows.

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=949598462167888&_rdr

Link doesn't work.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3276
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Tomashefsky wrote:


https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=949598462167888&_rdr

----
The link worked for me, but it seems to require being logon'ed to Facebook.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> High Range Development All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group