View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
|
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:50 am Post subject: young Doc Severinsen's high range |
|
|
hello
i had a conversation with a friend and told him that at the beginning of his career, Doc was already a virtuoso but not a high note player, until, what i read from Mr Scodwell, he met Lenny Morrison.
I've not been able to find again all the story about this period of his life, why he decided to developphis high register (because of his work with Maynard ?) and how things changed...
If somebody gets infos or Mr Scodwell wants to enlighten me
best |
|
Back to top |
|
|
solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
|
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Doc Severinsen began playing trumpet when he was 7. At 14 he had the “brass” to audition for Tommy Dorsey – who was short a trumpeter due to the millions of men who were called up for military service during World War Two.
Doc Severinsen: “So, I walk into Tommy Dorsey’s dressing room in Portland, Oregon at the Paramount Theatre and he said ‘Well hi there, young man. Watcha’ got in the case?’ I said, ‘I got my coronet.” My voice was changing. And he says, ‘Do you mind if I take a look at it?’ I said, ‘Go to work.’ He took it out and he promptly played two of the most difficult coronet solos ever attempted by any human being. Never missed a note and didn’t work up a bead of sweat. It almost would break your heart if you’re another trumpet player. And he’s not even a trumpet player. He’s a trombone player…the greatest ever.”
As sad as that story was, there is a happy ending. Tommy Dorsey told Doc to go home, finish school and come back to see him when he was a little older – and a lot better. And that’s just what Doc Severinsen did. He ended up playing with Tommy Dorsey and Harry James before landing in New York to work as a staff musician at NBC. _________________ Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
|
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:38 am Post subject: Doc and high notes |
|
|
I don't remember Doc ever working with Harry James. Charlie Barnet and Tommy Dorsey for sure and the NYC studios, NBC staff is all correct.
He told me he wanted to learn how to play in the upper register during a period when he was still doing the Tonight Show in LA and many performances in Las Vegas and indeed went to see Lenny Morrison in Chicago. He also told me that he felt his sound suffered but he sure played some amazing things during that period. Later on he forsake the upper register somewhat and concentrated more on his Pops gigs with Phoenix, Milwaukee and Minnesota and many other orchestras. I will say this though, when I was his pops first trumpet player and road manager, one thing was always placed on his music stand if the program had some things for him to play in the upper register and that was his Bob Reeves "Zinger" mouthpiece. He could change very discreetly from his 5C to the Zinger without the audience noticing. It certainly worked.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
|
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
thanks for the replies.
So Mr Scodwell, that was in the early 60, and not the 50' when Doc & Maynard recorded for Perez Prado... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
MF Fan Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 Posts: 397 Location: The Great White North
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: Re: young Doc Severinsen's high range |
|
|
JVL wrote: | I've not been able to find again all the story about this period of his life, why he decided to developp his high register (because of his work with Maynard ?) and how things changed... |
Maynard and Doc studied under the same teacher for a period of time in the '40s, Benny Baker. Doc studied with him in NY, and Maynard studied with him in Montreal when Benny traveled up there monthly to work with students at the Montreal Conservatory. As the legend goes, Maynard had already dialed in his chops at that point, and Maynard later found out Benny told the other instructors,"Listen, as far as the Ferguson kid goes, don't even talk to him about embouchure." _________________ MF Fan
__________
L.A. Benge 5x
Holton MF3
Lead Trumpet - My Basement Jazz Orchestra |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:16 am Post subject: Harry and Doc |
|
|
Gee, I worked many years with both Harry and Doc and neither mentioned that Doc played on Harry's band. Let's see...Doc got off the road and settled in NYC about 1949 and did studio work later after Latin bands. He was on staff at NBC starting with the Steve Allen show and through the years with the various Tonight Show personalities and became the leader after Skitch Henderson. Harry was on the road in the early fifties with a small band after the heyday of big bands was slowing down but soon re-organized his big band and found steady work in Las Vegas. I'd be interested to see something more detailed regarding Doc on Harry's band. Perhaps a payroll or discography listing sidemen if Doc recorded with Harry. The only detailed compilation of sidemen who played with Harry that I have in my collection has no mention of Doc.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 904
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: Re: young Doc Severinsen's high range |
|
|
MF Fan wrote: | JVL wrote: | I've not been able to find again all the story about this period of his life, why he decided to developp his high register (because of his work with Maynard ?) and how things changed... |
Maynard and Doc studied under the same teacher for a period of time in the '40s, Benny Baker. Doc studied with him in NY, and Maynard studied with him in Montreal when Benny traveled up there monthly to work with students at the Montreal Conservatory. As the legend goes, Maynard had already dialed in his chops at that point, and Maynard later found out Benny told the other instructors,"Listen, as far as the Ferguson kid goes, don't even talk to him about embouchure." |
I had heard this same story years ago. It was while studying with Benny Baker that Doc really developed his huge sound and incredible range. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
|
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Many thanks to all.
Doc should write or make write his biography ! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
|
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think young Doc had a weak range, by the time he was 20 or so he had an on-the-gig F/G range which was probably better than average at that time. He touches on a G a couple of times in the video of him playing with Charlie Barnet. But I think he just wasn't the go-to guy for high-note playing, he didn't have the range he had a couple of decades later. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KennyC123 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 141 Location: Morristown, TN
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
|
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Listen to the video with Doc, Bobby S, and A. Visutti. No doubt who the lead players were in that video. Doc leads the band up to a certain range I think A, then his sound changes, Bobby S is obviously a lead player who has great ride skills and holds his lead sound higher than Docs, but he’s not as cutting as Doc to the point where Doc ranges out. Vis is technically amazing but never achieves the free cut the others do. To me both Bobby and Doc could make anyone’s ~top 50 or 100 lead players. Who you would rather have would depend on the book, and whether you need improv. To me Doc has that balls out style Up to a register line (about 5) that makes a good lead sound.
Just cutting hairs, I’d b happy to play an e like any of them.
Rod |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jdleggett New Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2020 Posts: 7
|
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:47 am Post subject: Doc |
|
|
I only played one gig with him and he wanted to play my trumpet and he let me play his but I wasn't supposed to use the valves. He was using a super shallow mouthpiece and he had amazing range, technique and volume, but the sound wasn't so great. When he was playing, he seemed to have a lot of air escaping outside the mouthpiece. Don't know if that was a thing for him, or just something he was doing at the time. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EricV Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Posts: 227 Location: Australia
|
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am reading a book called Trumpet Blues - The Life of Harry James by Peter Levinson and Doc is mentioned a few times but never in relation to playing with the James band, rather the contrary, it describes Doc as having a keen appreciation of Harrys playing and when their paths did cross, Doc always took the opportunity to as advice.
He states that when Harry told him to get more top lip into his mouthpiece his playing started getting much easier. If he did play with Harry, one would think it would be mentioned in the book as it lists band members over various decades so i think Tony Scodwell is correct. The book is a great read by the way!
Cheers from oz and stay safe
EricV _________________ CG Benge trumpet
Yamaha Xeno Cornet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4808
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
deesson Regular Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 35 Location: Long Island, NY
|
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRu5m45Wz2c
and capture the images around 2:47 and 4:08 and compare them, Doc is using two different embouchures. The young Doc, a downstream, 3(B?) and apparently somewhere he switched to a IV upstream. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.
If I knew how to post the images I would. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
|
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
deesson wrote: | If you check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRu5m45Wz2c
and capture the images around 2:47 and 4:08 and compare them, Doc is using two different embouchures. The young Doc, a downstream, 3(B?) and apparently somewhere he switched to a IV upstream. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.
If I knew how to post the images I would. |
He definitely changed the horn angle and mouthpiece placement. In the above clip the previous Harry James anecdote notwithstanding he had a very high placement compared to years later and also his horn angle raised up. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Paul Tomashefsky Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 733 Location: Worcester, MA
|
Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There’s actually a movie coming out. Was supposed to be released back in March but cancelled due to the Covid-19 virus. I believe the title is “it’s never too late.” About Doc’s life and playing career. One of my younger private students and I had the good fortune of being interviewed by the film crew, at the Shires Trumpet factory in Massachusetts! And my student Will got to play for Doc, on a Blues I composed for my jazz band kids. Doc’s daughter Nancy asked me to sign a release if they decided to use it in the film! pretty cool, I have a photo with her! I hope Will’s playing gets in the movie, I didn’t see it on the Trailer, so who knows.
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=949598462167888&_rdr _________________ "Life Beats down and CRUSHES the soul, and Art reminds you that you have one" Stella Adler
"Music washes away the Dust of Everyday Life"
Art Blakey
"If you practice...It will come" Field of Trumpet Dreams |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
|
Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Paul Tomashefsky wrote: | There’s actually a movie coming out. Was supposed to be released back in March but cancelled due to the Covid-19 virus. I believe the title is “it’s never too late.” About Doc’s life and playing career. One of my younger private students and I had the good fortune of being interviewed by the film crew, at the Shires Trumpet factory in Massachusetts! And my student Will got to play for Doc, on a Blues I composed for my jazz band kids. Doc’s daughter Nancy asked me to sign a release if they decided to use it in the film! pretty cool, I have a photo with her! I hope Will’s playing gets in the movie, I didn’t see it on the Trailer, so who knows.
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=949598462167888&_rdr |
Link doesn't work. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
----
The link worked for me, but it seems to require being logon'ed to Facebook.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|