A question for upstream players

[Rod Haney]

Recently I had an implant supported upper plate break and had to start using a newer plate. The old plate had my lower teeth slightly 1/16 behind my front teeth with jaw relaxed. The new plate is dead even at relaxation so at least 1/16” forward.

I had been moving to a jaw forward position around hi c and was developing a nice loud in control hi g. I also had great tone to low f# and had good command of pedals to double pedal c. Overall a very good tone which stayed strong till hi e and tailed off slightly in timbre and volume. With the new plate tone below middle c is weaker and the pedals are much harder. On the other hand I absolutely ripped a g above dbl. c, with little over the notes up there as far as a scale but they were there and strong with little effort and almost no strain. This I love, but not as badly as I hate losing command of the middle and lower register. This is not a situation where I can just go back to the old way. An implant plate is around 3000$ and I’m a retiree who doesn’t have to play, and the implant guys say it’s impossible to duplicate the old plate now that it’s damaged. I was just getting back to the place I was hunting for public performance and now feel I just got sent back 3steps. I feel this is sad setback that I can overcome with some good advice if I can plug into someone who plays this way and understands what I may be going thru. The upper register is startlingly good and easy but that’s not near enough when you fart 93% of the rest. This is truly a jaw forward situation and not a tilting of the horn thing. Please if you are an upstream player and can relate to some of what I’ve said please contact me. Any of you who are aware of a person who give lessons and plays in this manner, give me his contact info. If you are aware of pertinent written material I would like to learn of it as well. I would greatfully trade that extra octave for the old plate, but there may me a way to have it all, but I’m lost right now. I’m just doing long tone and trying Togo on sound.
Thanks,
Rod

[JayKosta]

My guess is that you'll soon be accustomed to the new jaw position and it will feel 'natural' without need of conscious 'jaw forward' consideration.

Concentrating on the sound seems like a good idea. I would do the same and not attempt any conscious lower jaw adjustments (nor any upstream / downstream / pivot / etc.) - just play.

Jay.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[trumpetteacher1]

Rod,

You didn't say exactly where in your range that the tone starts to cut out as you descend, so I can't give you specific instructions.

In general, you can do exercises similar to RI 2 and 3 in the BE book. In those exercises, you start with a relatively secure feeling on higher notes, and then "drag that feeling down" into the lower partials.

You have to remain patient and persistent, as it may take several weeks or months to get the mid and lower registers to speak again.

Sometimes a slightly larger mouthpiece can also aid in the process.

There are some other helpful tools, but I won't discuss those in the open forums.

Good luck!

Jeff

[JVL]

hello Rod,
i agree with Jay, with patience and practice, no obsession, things will be back soon.
I'd have a skype lesson with Bobby Shew that taught millions of guys.
Andrea Tofanelli is a really up angle player, that was naturally good and strong young, but that teachers in conservatory ruined him by wanting him to play more down angle. Til he had lessons with Armando Ghitalla.
A really great person, and will have many things to tell you on this matter.
His e-address is on his website.
You can contact both of them, telling it's from their friend from Nissa
best

[Rod Haney]

As suggested in earlier posts, I’ve just played and it seems that the lower register is back. Also the upper register is strong and loud but with little control whatsoever. I often try to go up to e and get a g or a or almost anything, this is now a little better problem. I took a suggestion and contacted B Shew and he says he will have some time in December. I understand he is very good with diagnosing issues and making relevant suggestions. I am far from being any sort of accomplished player with fast tonguing and reading being big issues. But if he can help me connect the dots and show me how to connect these registers I’ll feel much better about the rest of the work and have more fun too. I have recently learned how important keeping the teeth more open will increase volume and ease on higher notes with the current setup. More after my lessons.
Thanks for the advice
Rod

[JVL]

hello Rod
no doubt Bobby will help you solve many issues and improve, believe me.
I'll add that i recently discovered that while ascending, rather than first adjust my jaw forward (which i'm doing for almost 30 years), it was more efficient to make this adjustment happen according to the forward arching tongue (as you know, tongue & jaw are connected).
Like that, the amount of jaw forward motion is well dosed, thanks to the more precise tongue action.
On the other hand, a certain puckering occurs, the right lips alignment, etc.
Giving more importance and a certain priority to the tongue, will produce better, more precise adjustments (jaw & embouchure).
Claude Gordon was right when he said "Watch at the tongue", "Let the tongue teach you, it'll teach you more than you'll teach it"
This, with the aperture control and breathing, and you're on the right track !

[Rod Haney]

[JVL]

hello Rod
i use and visualize more a forward, in horizontal sense, tongue motion rather than upward motion. I don't say that it doesn't go a bit up, but for me, this horizontal visualization helps me more in channeling the air.
For me, it gives more precision in putting in the right alignment jaw & lips, and doesn't cut the air flow, making the throat constricting, and losing the pressure benefits.
I said nothing about air velocity or upper range. For me, the tongue position is either a facilitator (making things easy), or inhibitor, depending on how you use and place it.
best

[JVL]

Pops wrote articles about these relations between tongue, jaw, lips, and razeontherock observed or felt the same than i did about the tongue pulling the jaw.