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Effect of Changing Bore Sizes on Piccolo Trumpet



 
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:26 am    Post subject: Effect of Changing Bore Sizes on Piccolo Trumpet Reply with quote

So I've had a Getzen Eterna for the past 3-4 years, great starter Picc for the money. It is known to have one of the smallest bores (0.420). Thinking about upgrading to a Schilke P5-4 with a 0.454 bore (I think).

Can anyone comment on how my sound and especially range may change after the switch?

Thanks
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may feel a little freerer, but it's a picc, so it's not going to be like a larger horn. My range is the same on every horn I own; easier to play higher or lower on some, but top to bottom doesn't really change much.

The Schilke is 0.450" per their website.

Best thing to do is to try one and see.

Jim Donaldson (R.I.P.) has some good advice:
https://www.everythingtrumpet.com/gearhead/Piccolo_Trumpet_Guide.html
https://www.everythingtrumpet.com/schilke/B_flat_trumpets.html

HTH - Don
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bore size is only 1 aspect of the instrument's design, so as a stand alone, it matters about zero. My Thein and Scherzer piccolos appear to have similar bore sizes and sound VERY different. A Kanstul I have has a huge .460 bore, but that does not define the instrument, rather the intonation, playability and tone colour it produces does.

Decide what you want to change and then go instrument hunting may be a better way to go about it.

cheers

Andy
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well has anyone made the switch I am contemplating between a Getzen to a Schilke?
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shark01 wrote:
Well has anyone made the switch I am contemplating between a Getzen to a Schilke?


My first picc was a Getzen and it served me well for years with a decent sound and decent intonation. When I had a chance to buy a Schilke P5-4, I bought it and it was clearly superior in every way to the Getzen. I have since replaced the P5-4 with a Schilke P7-4 which has that great Schilke playability and intonation, but for me, sounds even better. The P7-4 also comes standard with Bb and A leadpipes, which the P5-4 does not. Unless you purchase an A pipe separately for the P5-4, changing from Bb to A requires pulling out the leadpipe that comes with the horn. I had some difficulty finding a stand for the P7-4 because of the short bell and long fourth valve slide. A cut down spyder stand has solved that problem.
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
Bore size is only 1 aspect of the instrument's design, so as a stand alone, it matters about zero. My Thein and Scherzer piccolos appear to have similar bore sizes and sound VERY different. A Kanstul I have has a huge .460 bore, but that does not define the instrument, rather the intonation, playability and tone colour it produces does.

Decide what you want to change and then go instrument hunting may be a better way to go about it.

cheers

Andy


THIS!

Try as many as you can and choose what works FOR YOU - don't worry about bore size, don't worry about the brand (Schilke is certainly good, but doesn't work for everybody), don't worry what anyone else plays on - DO worry about intonation, DO worry about how it plays with YOU on the end.

What are you trying to improve on by changing from the Getzen?
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Steve Hollahan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject: Piccolo bore size Reply with quote

Went from Selmer Elkhorn Piccolo .410 o Besson piccolo by Kabstul, bore size .460. I changed mouthpieces to cornet and it worked out great. Schilke piccs are real great too. When you get it try a smaller cup and backbore on your favorite mouthpiece.

Recommend Mel Broiles "Trumpet Baroque" book, PP press. You play on Bb, then picc. Helps you work into playing high on picc and not killing yourself.

Also, don't over do it, gradually add it to your normal routine. Then practice pieces for solo and orch. Great pieces for weddings in John Head's "the Joyous Wedding".
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]

What are you trying to improve on by changing from the Getzen?[/quote]

Basically, I'm expecting positive changes in all aspects going from a 1976 upper student level horn to a new modern pro level one.

Unfortunately, I don't live in a place with easy access to alot of things to try so will have to buy on reputation.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are making a major purchase and it is well known that instruments vary, so you may end up with a fantastic horn, or a dog.

If at ALL possible, save some more, and make a trip to a place where you can try and then make a better decision. If you can afford the money, hire a professional to listen to you and assist as a second par of ears.

If you have the funds to make the purchase, take the time to make sure you are getting the best horn you can.

cheers

Andy
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Bore alone is pretty meaningless, though in combination with other factors, I think it can make a horn blow a little freer. I am a fan of larger bore, free blowing horns, but large bore and free blowing are not necessarily synonymous.
My suggestion would be, like others, to try before you buy. Like you, I live in an area with little access to music stores (luckily I travel for work a bit).
Many people selling horns and shops will let you try a horn and send it back undamaged if you do not like it. You may have to pay and get a refund for some, but not all. I would look for those deals and get a horn to try and keep at it till you find what you want. Start with the Schilke if you like the Schilke sound. I know a lot dealers will let you try and return if you do not like an instrument.
I know it has been said that you really need months to know whether you like a horn or not, but I have also gotten ones that I loved when I tried them and still love. (My Schilke X3L is an example. It is still a joy to pick up and practice.) I think trials help a lot. I certainly have not been as successful buying without trying. You really have to know very specifically what you want or it is a crap shoot.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up buying a Schilke P7-4, and the increase in bore size definately added to my range, increased total range by 1.5 steps, but more importantly made the upper notes clearer and more powerful. The squeeky F is now a real note, clear and full....yeah.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. I think that is probably a great choice. Have often thought of getting one myself, but I do not play the picc enough to justify it.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
Bass Tr: BAC Custom
Nat. Tr: Nikolai Mänttäri Morales Haas replica
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