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Embouchure concerns with Caruso method



 
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thejazzyone_28
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Joined: 23 Apr 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Embouchure concerns with Caruso method Reply with quote

Hi everyone, I’m new to this forum. I’ve recently been doing the Basic Caruso method exercises by Markus Stockhausen for a week now and have been noticing some things happen. Whenever I’m playing these exercises, I can feel my bottom lip go into my mouthpiece, constricting my sound and air flow, and also my embouchure becomes really wet, making me lose grip. These things prompt me to take my mouthpiece off my lips and put it back on. Is this part of the process or am I doing something wrong?

For example when I’m playing the harmonics after the seconds, majority of the time, I start the first exercise with no embouchure response and have a hard time. Idk why.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Embouchure concerns with Caruso method Reply with quote

thejazzyone_28 wrote:
... I can feel my bottom lip go into my mouthpiece, constricting my sound and air flow, and also my embouchure becomes really wet, making me lose grip. ...

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Are you attempting to use a 'special' embouchure for those exercises?
Have you noticed the situation with your lower lip in other playing situations?
Is this a long term problem with your lower lip, or new with the Caruso?

Is there something in Caruso that explains specific embouchure / lip considerations? And are they 'key' to the method?

Jay
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Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
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thejazzyone_28
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This only started happening when I started playing the Caruso exercises. I’ve noticed that after playing these exercises, I’ve used the same embouchure for articulation. Maybe I’m trying to compensate for something and that’s why my embouchure is changing. I’m trying to use the same embouchure I use for everything else with it.
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maynard-46
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:22 am    Post subject: Embouchure concerns with Caruso method Reply with quote

I studied with Carmine for 5 years and have been doing his routine for about 53 years now! You're making the quintessential mistake that just about every player, new to his method, makes: YOU'RE THINKING TOO MUCH!!! JUST DO! You will get all kinds of weird feelings/sounds with your embouchure and body UNTIL YOUR BODY BEGINS TO ADJUST. It will adjust over time WHEN U STOP TRYING TO ADJUST. Let the method do it's OWN thing. Once you remove the mouthpiece from your lips during an exercise you just tanked the whole thing. FOLLOW THE 4 RULES CONSTANTLY. Think hard thru the exercise about these rules AND STOP THINKING ABOUT (1) HOW IT FEELS...(2) HOW YOU SOUND...(3) AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT HOW BAD YOU FEEL OR IF NOTHING IS COMING OUT OF UR HORN. It is all related to the PROCESS. It WILL start happening little by little and you'll be VERY happy with the end result. Good luck my friend!

Butch
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thejazzyone_28
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“It will adjust over time WHEN U STOP TRYING TO ADJUST”

What if I can’t even get a sound out to start the exercise? Still no adjusting?


Last edited by thejazzyone_28 on Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:13 am; edited 3 times in total
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1B
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Jazzyone,
Welcome to TH. If you click under “Forums”, there is an entire forum dedicated to the teachings of Caruso. This will contain many interesting topics and discussions with people who studied with Caruso. I think you may find some answers there.
Good luck,
Jaimie Hall
Certified GR Consultant
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kgsmith1
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Joined: 30 Nov 2019
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Location: Greater Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A week isn't much time - even after months, there may be times when no sound comes out. This is fine. Also, I wouldn't expect to be able to jump into playing all of the drills immediately, especially if you're not resting enough.

To me it sounds like what you're experiencing is probably part of the process, but certainly not the end state, and you've discovered habits you will need to fix to get maximum benefit from Caruso and see improvements in your playing.

You're training your embouchure to coordinate the physical production of sound. If your embouchure is shifting around enough that you need to reset, you're not training your embouchure consistently, so you'll probably have inconsistencies on performance. Also it sounds like you've acquired the habit of using the mouthpiece to nudge the face into position - Bob Findley in his book describes training the lips to work on their own without protruding into the mouthpiece. Try to play through the 6 notes without needing to reset and without the lip pushing into the mouthpiece before expecting much on the other exercises.

This is where I add the usual disclaimer that getting a teacher to coach you on these drills would be a smart move. Also I would suggest planning out how you ramp up to doing a full Caruso style routine - the first four drills from Jim Thompsons buzzing book are good. If the harmonics are throwing you go back to the flexibilities you usually play, maybe Irons, Colin, etc. Julie Landsmann's videos are also good to explain more of the Caruso philosophy.
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TrpPro
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Practice the the Six Notes ONLY for two weeks (not counting non Caruso material) before attempting to add Intervals, Harmonics, etc. Follow the 4 Rules to the letter. The Six Notes Exercise may be done more than once during the day as long as you allow at least 20 minutes in between.

Making a buzz with your lips is the proper action to starting the sound in the mouthpiece.
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thejazzyone_28
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should I still continue to do these exercises without a teacher or should I stop them?
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'kernel of information' in this threat about the Caruso method seems to be 'do the process', and eventually the process will transform your playing in the proper manner.

It seems you can do the process for some period of time, and then you're unable to continue the process - perhaps due to simple fatigue from using muscles in a new way.

Does it makes sense to veer off course from the process in order to get thru particular exercises?

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/2020_Aug_02_web.jpg
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thejazzyone_28
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll continue doing the exercises and I’ll make sure to go look at the other information that’s on here.
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PH
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thejazzyone_28 wrote:
“It will adjust over time WHEN U STOP TRYING TO ADJUST”

What if I can’t even get a sound out to start the exercise? Still no adjusting?


Do whatever it takes to get a sound. But do it the way you always play. I assume when you play "normally" you can get a sound. Play that way, and then if you started that way and the sound stops responding keep blowing to the next scheduled rest and stop at that point.

Do not worry if strange things happen while you are doing these exercises. Start with your normal set up and follow the rules.

Have you read all of the stickies in this forum? If not, DO IT! If you have read them all, read them AGAIN!
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