Playing high with just sighing

supercow216 · Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: Playing high with just sighing

Hi,

I have been practicing Balanced Embouchure by Jeff for 8 months, with some success with both RI and RO. My top note was a high C but not very inconsistent.

I recently watched a video by Paul Mayes. He suggests that players should always sigh when starting a note.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zmGHEeIJPQ

After testing back and forth, I found the only way to play this way is to have the lower jaw protruding, and play in the "upstream" (made-up word) style. Every note up to high C is suddenly clear and smooth as butter. When going higher than that, I need to "open my throat more" (sorry I have no idea how to explain this transcending feeling), like you should be "puking" to play high???.

Interestingly, my top lip definitely roll in and out freely as BE indicated but my lower lip is locked due to the protruding jaw. TOL now also feel very normal, with no discomfort. With this settings however, I can't do RO and RI, or squeaking and have to do them isolatedly. But as Jeff said, practing BE and playing with your normal embouchure!

Like I said, the feeling was quite dope!!!! Does anyone practice this sigh approach?
_________________
Oink, oink.

I am still learning!

acritzer · Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:11 am Post subject:

I've watched a bunch of Paul's videos and really enjoy them. I've had some success in attempting the sigh concept, but it hasn't created any amazing break throughs.
I have noticed that when I really concentrate on using the sigh my upper register is flat. E and Eb in particular. Not really sure if it's a gap, mp, or all of the above issue, but it's something I've noticed.

JayKosta · Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject:

Seems to me, the main point of that Mayes videos is about 'air support'.
Using a large quantity of air as is brought in during the inhale portion of a 'big sigh' (a big relaxed inhale followed by a large 'somewhat forced' exhale originating and supported in the chest/torso).

I think that Mayes is discussing ONLY the air in and out of the chest in that video. I don't think he is referring to any mouth or jaw movements that occur during a 'sigh' - and especially NOT the mouth relaxation that occurs at the finish of a sigh.

For me, I think I get better understanding from that video by 'watching' what he is demonstrating.
Not by trying to understand what he has in mind with his use of words such as:
sigh, warm / cold air.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

supercow216 · Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject:

Yes, I noticed that it is not about embouchure at all. Sighing has an effect of relaxing the throat and thus keeping the whole air pipe from being constricted.

My point is, to be able to play with sighing, one first needs to find a proper embouchure that does not interfere with the air column (throat, neck).
In my case, I find that protruding the jaw seems to be way to make play sighing naturally, and I never discovered this way up until now!!!

So one (who struggle) may want to try out which chop settings work best with play sighing

supercow216 · Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject:

if it is flat, then usually there is something with air column. I feel that with sighing, if you engage your abdominal muscle too late or too early, the laryinx closes and the air gets stuck at the throat.

My problem is the airy middle register. The octave above middle C is quite clear and easy.

Trumpet hobbyists like me usually find days of brilliance without knowing why, and crash another day. But yeah, pretty excited for now

Tpt_Guy

Jaw04 · Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:37 pm Post subject:

Thinking about sighing is a great way to prevent overblowing, because a sigh is a natural function we do without even thinking about it. We breathe in and the air just goes out in a relaxed effortless way. When I think of "blowing" air I often introduce too much strain and tension.

JVL · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:25 am Post subject:

salut supercow,
the jaw motion is connected to the tongue motion or action (like we discussed in the thread about "upstream players"), and of course will impact the "throat opening or restriction" depending on how correctly you're arching the tongue.
And also the embouchure

and these factors have to be balanced, and if things get better while you can't ri or ro anymore, that's not the point. Of course we sometimes need time to master an efficient technic, but if you're doing this technic correctly and it doesn't work, keeping on will be only ideologic and hurt itself against reality.
best

JayKosta · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:21 am Post subject: teaching methods and style

An interesting (and important) aspect of this discussion about the 'sigh technique' and later mention of 'maintaining a feeling of surprise' is that different teaching methods can work better than others. Perhaps it depends on the student, or perhaps on the teacher, but regardless it is beneficial if it produces good results.

Variations include:
What the body (physiology) should be doing.
What the person should 'feel' the body doing.
What other action is an example of what to do.

The 'example' method might be most successful when the teacher/student have 'verbal difficultly' explaining or understanding. But if there is a good 'generally understood universal action' that can be used as an example, it can work.

For example: brass players lip relaxation 'horse noise lip flapping' - trying to explain it in words would be difficult, but the analogy is universally understood and done.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

kalijah · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:48 am Post subject:

I have watched the videos by Paul. He really does not explain exactly what he means by the sigh breath. Perhaps he means using only the elastic recoil of full lungs for air pressure. He may be discussing the inhalation or an attempt to drop the jaw or open the throat. He simply does not make that clear or explain it thoroughly.

What IS clear is that he believes that resistance creates air pressure (it doesn't) and that air pressure determines pitch (it doesn't).

Jaw04 wrote:

supercow216 · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:26 am Post subject:

kalijah · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 am Post subject:

Nothing is "free" and that goes for blowing as well.

supercow216 · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:38 am Post subject:

Steve A · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:49 am Post subject:

supercow216 · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:51 am Post subject:

kalijah · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:01 am Post subject:

Steve A · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:11 am Post subject:

JayKosta · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject:

kalijah · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject:

JVL · Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject:

Science is one thing, teaching another, learning another one, and truth a fourth one.
When you want to teach somebody how to play well, nice and easy, you must know your matter, how to transmit it to a specific individual. And sometimes a "false" image will have a more efficient, positive practical impact, than an image based on "true" science most of the pupils/students/pros will not understand or be able to apply.
Are we talking about pedagogy or science just for labs ?
best
(just to avoid some debates that could insinuate i don't care about sciences, i'll precise that i published a book whose english title would be "Principles of physical preparation applied to instrumental practice. High level sport methodology applied to instrumental practice", validated by a world known trainer & teacher, and ex international athlete)