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dagrace Regular Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 52 Location: Pewaukee, WI
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Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: Conn 2B, 12B, 22B ? |
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I put a similar post in the marketplace, and it may be inappropriate here or there or both.
I've never played a Conn, to my knowledge. Just from obsessing about it (I admit it... I've spent HOURS) reading here, and reading the Conn Loyalist, scouring ebay and many other sites, I want to play (and probably own) a pre-1950 2B, 12B, or 22B. But I've never played ANY.
Anyone in Chicagoland have one they would let me play? I'll come to you, of course. I don't want to buy yours (unless it's for sale). I just want to play one or more, to get a feel for them. So far my "technolust" is only on paper. I want to feel the love.
Actually Milwaukee area would work too, as I have a son up there whom we visit regularly.
Thanks! _________________ --
David
Stomvi S3
Kanstul 1525 Flugel
Yamaha YTR 8445G
1929 Conn 2B
1947 Holton 48
2014 Getzen 800 Eterna cornet copper bell
2016 Stomvi Titan cornet Brass Band edition |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I just brought my 12-B to Charlie Melk. When it's back from restoration (pink bell!) you can certainly try it out on one of your trips north.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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I actually like the 12b the least, and he four that I had were all sharp on "tuning c". I took a couple apart and the bell tail is a micro .420
The 22b bell tail is .438, same as the bore size. The bells are siad to be identical, but that is not true in this limited experience.
The 2b plays great with a lt diferent sound than the 22b. The 22b has a dense intense tone even when you play soft. Like a C trumpet.
The 2b is wispy sounding when soft, and that is consistent with the conn catalog description. The 2b with stock pipe is flat in the low register, and great everywhere else. I fixed that with a leadpipe change.
The first slide is cut longer on the 22b than the 2b, so you need to use the saddle on the 2b. Both have very good intonation in the money registers. Sloth have very good upper registers. Low register is better on the 22b.
The copper bell 12b has a sound that is dry, and when you attack it hard, it gets more of a thud than a ping. The 22b sound better soft that the 12b becuase it has more resonance and less dryness. It's dry almost like it has less reverb. The 12b came in the heavy and light versions. The light bell is really thin and sizzles, and does not sound dry when playing soft. You won't find one though:) I think they only made it one year, something like 1940. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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derby_mute Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 343 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Lipshurt - thanks for the info on the 12B (and the info in the rest of your post). I was also under the impression 22B=12B+coprion bell.
I think your spell check changed the word "both" to "sloth." Interesting. _________________ Cornets:
Selmer model #43
Selmer Concept
Baldwin Custom (Blessing Artist stencil)
1923 Buescher shepherd's crook
1880 F. Besson Paris
Trumpets:
1931 Cleveland Greyhound
1935 Olds French model |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9345 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:02 am Post subject: |
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As you know, I have a pretty nice '29 22B, and it is a really good trumpet. Easy to play, good slotting, great intonation. The older ones have top-sprung valves with 2-eared guides, just like most modern horns. For some reason, Conn switched to bottom-sprung valves in the 30's with those goofy corks on top.
Anyway, I'm posting to say this...Even though the 22B is a great instrument, it's not my main trumpet. There's nothing magic to me about the 22B (I've had 2 of them), the 6B (I own one of those, too), or the 38B, which I've played numerous times. When I have a lot of trumpet playing to do, I still pull out my old '76 Bach Strad. It's a little easier to get around on, and has an extra something in the sound that the Conns don't. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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derby_mute wrote: | Lipshurt - thanks for the info on the 12B (and the info in the rest of your post). I was also under the impression 22B=12B+coprion bell. |
Got your equation slightly wrong. 12B=22B+Coprion bell.
It doesn't surprise me that the bell tail inner diameter is smaller. Charlie Melk mentioned that the copper was softer and thicker than the corresponding brass bell.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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On the lightweight 12b the tail is really thin and also small. They use a special ferrule with two diferent diameters. The thick bell uses the same ferrule as the 22b, which would. Still the diameter is a whopping 20 thous smaller. Had to be an acoustic thing with the copper. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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On the lightweight 12b the tail is really thin and also small. They use a special ferrule with two diferent diameters. The thick bell uses the same ferrule as the 22b, which would make some sense. Still the diameter of the 12b is a whopping 20 thous smaller. Had to be an acoustic thing with the copper. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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Greenleaf Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 536
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Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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At the prices they've been going for lately why not buy one of each? That's what I did! My fave is the 1927 2B (includes '26 which are really rare and the first half of '28 ). _________________
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Patrizio Regular Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2014 Posts: 67 Location: Roma
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Hi, do you agree with what Conn said in 1939 about the 12b?
"Built in small bore, but the seamless bell of Coprion gives it the power you would expect only from larger bore. Ease of playing, beauty of tone, accuracy of scale and amazing flexibility. Impossible to overblow or crack a note. Patented Clickless Crysteel valves. Bb and A. Brass, heavily clear lacquered".
Thank you,
Pat |
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krax Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 683 Location: Hofors, Sweden
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:10 am Post subject: |
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"Built in small bore, but the seamless bell of Coprion gives it the power you would expect only from larger bore."
No, I wouldn't call it a powerful trumpet.
"Ease of playing, beauty of tone, accuracy of scale"
Yes, very easy to play well.
"and amazing flexibility."
No, the copper bell makes it sound like a copper bell trumpet, so, no.
"Impossible to overblow or crack a note."
Yes, actually, this is one of the first things I noted when I got mine. |
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Patrizio Regular Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2014 Posts: 67 Location: Roma
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Krax! Let's see if someone have other comments. |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 654 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer the 22b NYS or Victor over the 12b. The 12b is a looker but misses the crisp sound of the 22b.
Both easy to play but as Dale Proctor stated:"When I have a lot of trumpet playing to do, I still pull out my old '76 Bach Strad. It's a little easier to get around on, and has an extra something in the sound that the Conns don't." _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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jlambmusic Regular Member
Joined: 30 May 2023 Posts: 13 Location: Indianapolis
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Conn 12B is about the same as a 22B except that it has a fancy copper bell made from a special process that Conn developed.
The original line Conn 2B was a different horn than the 22B. It is ML bore and very versatile horn. These horns were suposedly made with french brass and were actually the inspiration for the Bach Strad design (if you can beleive that). Definitely collectors items for many trumpet enthusiasts. |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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lipshurt wrote: |
The 2b is wispy sounding when soft, and that is consistent with the conn catalog description. The 2b with stock pipe is flat in the low register, and great everywhere else. I fixed that with a leadpipe change.
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May I asked what leadpipe you used and where you got it? I have a 10B that needs a new one.
I have a 1924 & 1940 22B, love them both, but the 1940 has a much mellower tone and plays better/easier. I also have a .46 bore 1932 Conn made for U.S. Quartermaster Corp. it's like a cross between a 2B and a 22B. Also a beautiful sounding horn. _________________ Olds Super('54)
Conn Military Spec('32)
Conn 22B('24;'41)
Holton Military 48('51)
Holton 45 ('47)
Pan American 66B('31)
King Liberty('25,'29,'34 Silvertone)
Martin Imperial('64)
Tonk Sterling('19)
H.B.Jay Columbia('19) |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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jlambmusic wrote: |
The original line Conn 2B was a different horn than the 22B. It is ML bore and very versatile horn. These horns were suposedly made with french brass and were actually the inspiration for the Bach Strad design (if you can beleive that). |
Sorry. The 2B was Conn’s attempt to make a horn somewhat like a F.Besson or other French instrument. Bach was also looking at the French instruments as he was making his design experiments. (not the Conns.) |
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