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Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9345
Location: Heart of Dixie
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 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn shank too big |
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| DJtpt31 wrote: | | Can the shank of a flugelhorn mouthpiece, that is too big, be altered/modified to the specifications of a large morse taper (yamaha taper)... |
I thought the large Morse taper was the largest flugelhorn shank size. I think there are some flugelhorn mouthpieces with a trumpet shank, but those are seldom seen. Are you sure you have a flugelhorn mouthpiece?
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B. Scriver
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 1204
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: |
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OK. Let's stop guessing.
Tell you what...In the spirit of the season...
Send us the leadpipe. GR will measure it up and tell you the real deal. We will ship it back to you for free. Then you post the results here. Sounds pretty good or what?
Email me for details on where to ship it.
Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
grmouthpieces@gmail.com |
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JeffM729
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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Parrish, FL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| DJtpt31 wrote: | | JeffM729 wrote: | If the mouthpiece is for your Conn Flugel which is from the 1960's and made in Switzerland, they take a cornet sized shank, I believe.
You can check it easily enough. |
It takes a large morse taper (Yamaha taper). Cornet shank will not fit. |
Is it a Conn 24A flugelhorn made by Willson? Here is a thread that indicates you need a French taper.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1329368 |
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 24A. Wonderful sounding horn. It has a French shank receiver. The problem with mine is the receiver is somehow oversized (by something like 2/10,000ths) and had to have a custom mouthpiece made for it (which has long since been stolen, so I haven't played the horn in close to a decade). A standard taper mouthpiece could be used but only inserted maybe 1/2 inch (if I recall).
I am trying to decide if I want to buy a leadpipe from Charlie Melk (he can fit one, I already emailed him) or have the receiver reamed to accept a standard taper.
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DJtpt31
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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The honest true is I don't know. There is no marking that would indicate if it is a 24A. The bell is stamped CONN. The valve block says Switzerland. I've tried putting a cornet shank and it is too small. Of the flugelhorn mouthpieces I own (three) two for in fact are large morse tapers and the mouthpiece that make with the horn is stamped 6c (I don't know the specs to this). All three mps fit securely so I've assumed it takes a large morse taper. I haven't tried using a french or bach taper mouthpiece.
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DJtpt31
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn shank too big |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | DJtpt31 wrote: | | Can the shank of a flugelhorn mouthpiece, that is too big, be altered/modified to the specifications of a large morse taper (yamaha taper)... |
I thought the large Morse taper was the largest flugelhorn shank size. I think there are some flugelhorn mouthpieces with a trumpet shank, but those are seldom seen. Are you sure you have a flugelhorn mouthpiece? |
It is a flawed flugelhorn mouthpiece with a shank that is bigger than the large morse specs. I was able to figure out what I will do to get it to the proper specs of the large morse taper.
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| DJtpt31 wrote: |
The honest true is I don't know. There is no marking that would indicate if it is a 24A. The bell is stamped CONN. The valve block says Switzerland. I've tried putting a cornet shank and it is too small. Of the flugelhorn mouthpieces I own (three) two for in fact are large morse tapers and the mouthpiece that make with the horn is stamped 6c (I don't know the specs to this). All three mps fit securely so I've assumed it takes a large morse taper. I haven't tried using a french or bach taper mouthpiece. |
Does the serial number have an R?
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DJtpt31
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Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | DJtpt31 wrote: |
The honest true is I don't know. There is no marking that would indicate if it is a 24A. The bell is stamped CONN. The valve block says Switzerland. I've tried putting a cornet shank and it is too small. Of the flugelhorn mouthpieces I own (three) two for in fact are large morse tapers and the mouthpiece that make with the horn is stamped 6c (I don't know the specs to this). All three mps fit securely so I've assumed it takes a large morse taper. I haven't tried using a french or bach taper mouthpiece. |
Does the serial number have an R? |
yes it does
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| DJtpt31 wrote: | | Tpt_Guy wrote: |
Does the serial number have an R? |
yes it does |
Then it should be a 24A. I have one. The stock leadpipe design has a receiver for a French shank mouthpiece. Over time they can become worn, especially when continually forced to accept an incorrect mouthpiece shank. This may be through no fault of your own. Mine was worn before I received it so Curry made a custom job for me.
Here is a thread that shows a 24A:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1229777
The third post compares a 23A and a 24A. Yours look like that?
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DJtpt31
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | DJtpt31 wrote: | | Tpt_Guy wrote: |
Does the serial number have an R? |
yes it does |
Then it should be a 24A. I have one. The stock leadpipe design has a receiver for a French shank mouthpiece. Over time they can become worn, especially when continually forced to accept an incorrect mouthpiece shank. This may be through no fault of your own. Mine was worn before I received it so Curry made a custom job for me.
Here is a thread that shows a 24A:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1229777
The third post compares a 23A and a 24A. Yours look like that? |
Yes, mine looks exactly like the 24A in the pictures. So French taper? According to the Kanstul website a large taper should fit a Conn. Mouthpiece Express mention that the Vintage One receives a large morse taper, too. I was told by a trumpet manufacture when trying mouthpieces that my flugelhorn received a large morse taper. So I've used this information to inform my decision to pick-up a flugelhorn mouthpiece with a large morse taper.
This flugelhorn was handed down to me. It belonged to an uncle who had passed some time ago and was just sitting in my grandmother garage. An uncle saw that I wanted to make a career in music, so he decided to give me the flugelhorn before I went to college. I was using the mouthpiece that was in the case (whether it was the stock mouthpiece or not I don't know). The mouthpiece does not have any markings indicating make, just 6C stamped.
If the horn is intended to receive a french taper, is it then possible to get a custom mouthpipe/leadpipe made to accept a large morse taper? or could I only go smaller to the bach taper? I would choose to invest in a proper pipe designed for large morse as opposed to the stock one I have that seems to be worn down, hence the reason it accepts the large morse taper mouthpieces I own.
Thanks for this info, I've learned a ton about my flugelhorn. I want add that I was not challenging anyone when I commented on, what I perceive as, differences in leadpipe/mouthpiece. I believed that the leadpipe was the pipe that was attached and the mouthpipe was the removal pipe that connected to the leadpipe. I see now that they are one of the same, correct me if I'm wrong. When the few commented on getting a new leadpipe, see that I didn't misunderstood what was meant.
I ended up purchasing the mouthpiece, because it was really cheap and will send it off the Bob Reeves to get that shank shaved down.
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pinstriper
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Location: Portlandia, OR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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A number of flugels have been made and shipped with additional leadpipes in different tapers, or made them available for purchase. It isn't ALWAYS a matter of having a custom ordered leadpipe, although that's a pretty simple matter.
Kanstul would (reluctantly depending on the day) make/send you a different leadpipe. The newest Getzen flugel deliberately offered choice of taper, for instance.
I think many of us - me certainly - were confused by your resistance to what we were saying since it so easy and straightforward, until we tweaked that you had different terminology and understanding. Once we broke through that, all good.
Remember also that forum posts will be read in the future by someone in the same predicament, so we almost have to be pedantic. I hope it wasn't perceived as rude.
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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If the horn looks like a Conn/Wilson 24A then it's a pretty safe assumption that it has a French taper leadpipe which is either well worn, or has been intentionally altered so that Large Morse taper mouthpieces will fit adequately. (It's difficult to say for certain that it didn't leave the factory with a Large Morse leadpipe, unless anyone has definitive information on these horns' production history.) If you want to get confirmation of what the current pipe is, and have the option of getting a replacement made, IMO it would be well worth taking up Brian Scriver's offer.
It's certainly possible that the horn would play substantially better for you with a properly matched mouthpiece and leadpipe. To put this issue in context though, it's very common to use Bach taper mouthpieces in French taper leadpipes. This combination is even further from a 'textbook' setup than what you probably have at the moment, but in practice it works well enough for some very serious players.
Mike |
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