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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3302 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: Music Theory - Arban's Diminished Seventh |
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I'd like to understand the music theory associated with Arban's Chord of the Diminished Seventh exercises.
SPECIFICALLY - in the top line of exercise #55 (no sharps or flats), the first and last measures appear to be standard A minor chords, and the 'inner measures' all appear to be variations on some sort of Bdim7 chords (the written G# is the dim7 interval from B, right?).
Starting from B, A# is a maj7, A is a min7, and G#(Ab) is a maj6/dim7).
So, what is the 'theory purpose' of the first and last measures being A minor chords? Other than to illustrate what minor chord is associated with the key signature.
And in the following lines of #55, what is the chord progression pattern going from the first measure to the second measure?
Yes, I can understand the 'playing technique skills' of these #55 exercises, it's just the 'theory' that has me confused.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:37 am Post subject: |
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It puts the dim7 chord in a tonal context.
The diminished chord built on the major 7th scale degree, and its enharmonic equivalent built on the major 2nd scale degree, are commonly used in minor keys, but it's uncommon for a dim7 chord to be used as a tonal center, and was even more uncommon as a tonal center in Arban's time
Rather than simply arpeggiating the dim7 chord, this exercise frames it in a tonal context, allowing the student to hear how the chord might sound in a real performance composition, relative to a tonal center. This is how I interpret it, although I don't know Arban's thoughts on the matter _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3302 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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mm55 wrote: | It puts the dim7 chord in a tonal context.
.. and its enharmonic equivalent built on the major 2nd scale degree, are commonly used in minor keys, but it's uncommon for a dim7 chord to be used as a tonal center, and was even more uncommon as a tonal center in Arban's time
Rather than simply arpeggiating the dim7 chord, this exercise frames it in a tonal context, allowing the student to hear how the chord might sound in a real performance composition, relative to a tonal center. This is how I interpret it, although I don't know Arban's thoughts on the matter |
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Does the following agree with your explanation? I just want to make sure that I understand correctly, since I haven't read about the 'tonal context' relationship that you mention.
(for the first line of #55 in Arban's)
In the key of A minor, the 2nd scale degree is B (a major 2nd from A), and the Bdim7 chord is often used in pieces written in A minor.
And similarly for the other lines (that are all written in minor keys).
I'd guess that 1000's of people have played those exercises without any understanding or explanation of the music theory involved, or even about the frequency of use of dim7 chords in minor keys.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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To back up what mm55 said...
Diminished chords are symmetrical (all minor thirds) so they don't have a key center. A Bo7 chord could conceivably resolve to A minor, C minor, Eb minor, or Gb minor. Arban likely just picked one so you don't sound like you're floating freely with no key center or resolution of the tension (diminished chords have two tritones so they demand to be resolved).
The theoretical reason for this is that the 7th chord that resolves to the minor chord is very commonly a 7b9. So you go E7b9 to A-. If you start a diminished 7th chord starting on the third of the E7b9, you get G#, B, D, F natural! That F natural is the b9, and it comfortably resolves to the E in the A- chord.
For this reason, diminished chords are often found in minor contexts.
Hope the above is helpful... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3302 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:14 am Post subject: |
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mm55 and Turkle ,
Thanks for your very helpful (and understandable) explanations!
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Turkle wrote: | To back up what mm55 said...
Diminished chords are symmetrical (all minor thirds) so they don't have a key center. A Bo7 chord could conceivably resolve to A minor, C minor, Eb minor, or Gb minor. Arban likely just picked one so you don't sound like you're floating freely with no key center or resolution of the tension (diminished chords have two tritones so they demand to be resolved).
The theoretical reason for this is that the 7th chord that resolves to the minor chord is very commonly a 7b9. So you go E7b9 to A-. If you start a diminished 7th chord starting on the third of the E7b9, you get G#, B, D, F natural! That F natural is the b9, and it comfortably resolves to the E in the A- chord.
For this reason, diminished chords are often found in minor contexts.
Hope the above is helpful... |
And in light of these explanations, a good thing to practice is setting tones OTHER than the A in your ear (play it on a piano, your horn whatever) before you play the diminished arpeggios to train your ear to hear the diminished structure against other tones that it might resolve to.
keith |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3302 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the help about this.
It seems there is quite a bit of music theory involved with many of the simple looking exercises.
I never got to the stage of understanding the theory, or even the significance of the key signature progression of the exercises. My teachers never mentioned it, and there isn't much printed explanation in the method book that I've seen.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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